Transcript
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Welcome to Round Trip Death and part two of Peter Panagora's adventure.
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If you haven't yet heard part one, I recommend starting there.
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It's episode number 238.
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On this podcast, we relive near-death experiences with the people who actually survive them.
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There's a lot more to hear from Peter, so let's jump right into it.
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It's this funny thing, near-death experience is this funny thing that I keep learning about
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it.
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My learning from it and my learning about it is this ongoing process.
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It happened almost 40 years ago for me.
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I'm still understanding what happened to me that night.
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I'm still understanding.
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And it's not just in my memory or someone phrasing something to me like you just did,
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for which I am grateful.
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But also the mystical gifts that come keep, everything is always new.
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So I have this moment of acceptance of my circumstance and this piece fills into me
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and I still pull on the rope.
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I didn't give up, but the rope's not budging.
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And then I got hot.
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And all of this, what it felt like to me was that the blood that I could feel, because
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I couldn't feel my feet at this point, the pain, the fire in my feet had stopped.
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All the nerves were stopped sending that information.
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But I did feel the blood rush into my core, my torso, and up from my arms.
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And I felt it in my head and I felt it in my chest.
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And I started to get hot.
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I felt like I was sweating.
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And I wanted to adjust my temperature not to be hot.
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So of course, I irrationally unzipped my coat and opened it up.
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And at this point, I had what was called a 6040 jacket by L.L. Bean.
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And I sprayed it with silicone for waterproofs.
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It's cotton and poly with this big green jacket.
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And I unzipped it and opened it up and Tim yelled at me.
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It's like the first thing he said to me in a long time, you zip your coat back up, you
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idiot.
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And I'm like, I don't really care.
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I'm hot and I'm trying to cool myself down.
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And so I ignored him.
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He's often his own space mostly.
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And I'm in my own space sort of inside myself as I pull on this rope, paying attention to
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my body, paying attention to my mind, the peace that's inside of me.
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And then I began to fall asleep.
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And I would fall asleep like this curtain drop in a darkened theater.
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You're sitting in the audience and the stage is illuminated and the monologues is in the
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center stage and suddenly the curtain just drops, boom, and the whole place is pitch
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dark.
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And so this curtain would pitch dark drop on me and I would fall into unconsciousness,
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collapse, sleep, a dreamless sleep.
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I would fall to the rock and smack my head, smack my shoulder, head out a helmet and would
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stand back up again because the shock would awaken me and I would pull on the rope again.
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And this repeated itself.
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And it wasn't like I had any warning.
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This curtain would just drop and I'd be out and I'd wake up.
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So I stood back up this time, this last time.
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And as I stood back up to pull on the rope again, I had my peripheral vision was surrounded
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by a blackness I'd never seen before.
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So this blackness was also like being on a stage in a spotlight and you're the monologues
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on the stage and you can see the edge of the light beam that's surrounding you in front
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of you and the darkness beyond it and you can't see the audience and you can't see the
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stage hands or the wings and then the light gets smaller and smaller and smaller and it
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comes up to your face.
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And then as it goes to your face, you can see the edges of it just around my face.
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And then it went to black.
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And as this was happening, I was thinking to myself, what is going on here?
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I'd never seen anything like this, that this fading to black in front of me.
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And I could see only in the tunnel of my vision.
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And one of the last things I saw is I swung my head to the left to look at Tim and I watched
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this blackness all around him except for his face.
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And then I swung back to look at the mountain in front of me and I'm staring at the rock
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mountain is this light gets smaller and smaller and poof, it's dark.
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And as it gets to its smallest spot, I remember thinking that I didn't understand what was
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going on.
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I was confused and befuddled as this darkness closed in front of me.
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And as the darkness closed in front of me, I expected I thought I must be falling asleep.
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And I expected my consciousness to stop as it had before, but it didn't.
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Instead, I was awake, the darkness came and I was awake and I didn't understand what was
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going on even more.
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I was confusing and in the where the mountain had been a moment before as the as the tunnel
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vision collapsed, now was gone and I had no more pain.
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And I didn't understand why I didn't have any more pain.
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And the darkness that closed on me became an expanse in front of me where the mountain
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should have been.
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There was this wide, wide, wide void of darkness and it was dark darkness until a pinprick
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of light appeared at the farthest distance.
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A galaxy's, a universe's distance away, there was a single pinprick and it rushed toward
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me.
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It was white light and as it came toward me at an incredible speed covering a vast distance,
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it expanded to consume my view and communicated to me telepathically, instantaneously, all
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power, all intellect, and I'm taking you.
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And as it talked to me without language inside of me, I didn't understand what was happening
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so I took all of this willpower that I had through the night for my survival and I put
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it up like a shield in front of it.
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But the shield was amounted to nothing.
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It was empty.
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This entity, it reached in to me, it took me and encased me and unfolded me against
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my will.
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And I went with it and I was inside of it and enveloped by it.
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It was like a gigantic orb and this orb was an intellect and it kept communicating to
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me all knowledge, all smartness, all comfort, all welcome.
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And I was inside it, encapsulated in it, sitting in it, and I had a physical form but I had
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no physicality.
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There were no molecules of me.
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It was like an energy body or a light body but there weren't electrons and they weren't
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photons but they had the shape of my human self.
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And I was inside of this angelic being who I recognized now as the same angelic form
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who had come to me in my youth.
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And it took all of my capacity for choice.
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I could not stop it.
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I couldn't move.
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I could see through it.
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It was transparent.
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And outside of it, I had a second point of view.
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I had this other view that was sort of located nowhere but I could see myself inside this
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orb traveling this distance.
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And I could see this light body that I had but from the light body I couldn't see this
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other eye of me that saw me inside the angelic form.
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So I was bilocated and the angelic form, this being of intellect, was also superpositioned,
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bilocated.
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It was the intensity and the infinity of the divine itself in a reduced form that was much
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greater than me but reduced in quantity but not in quality.
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And it was both this limited entity for approach to me and the divine self itself.
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And I was inside this and we traveled backups like an elevator shaft of its previous trajectory
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toward me.
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We returned on the same path.
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And when we reached the point at which the light had appeared, it unfolded itself or
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popped me out of itself.
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I am not clear about what happened there.
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I'm still trying to see that part of it.
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But as I popped out into a greater darkness, in this greater darkness I had a new form,
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no more light body.
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Now I'm an expansive orb myself.
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And my understanding of myself, my vision outside of myself, my thinking, my identity
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are all one thing.
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They're not separate and broken into components.
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I am this much larger no thing because now there's not even this energy that I had in
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a more dense form of my light self.
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Now I am an expansive singular self.
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And in my singular self, the first thing I recognize is myself.
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I know me.
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I know this has always been me.
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I know this is my true me and that I had never really truly been this physical form that
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I had just left.
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This was a recollection of myself.
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And inside this darkness, there was also illumination because I could see in every direction all
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at once like I had 10,000 eyes or as a single eye looking out in one direction, but all
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directions at once in this timeless space.
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And I could see further than I'd ever seen before.
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I close my eyes and I can see back in my memory the experience of seeing to the edge of infinity.
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There was this very huge distance as far away as the pinprick of light was for me when I
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was just dying.
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This was infinitely further.
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And I could see to this edge of darkness.
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And beyond this darkness was infinity and I could not see into the darkness.
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But I could see in this illuminated darkness all the way out to the edge at infinity.
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And I was unafraid.
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I was content.
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I was at ease.
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I felt safe.
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I felt myself.
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And as I was there, this light appeared.
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It was like a tearing open of all the darkness.
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And it was an intense light like a waterfall of a cascade of all sorts of colors, all the
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colors of all the stars that were up in the sky that night where there's no light pollution
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in Alberta and in British Columbia.
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The further north you go on a moonless night, there are 10 million stars of all different
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sizes pulsing in different colors.
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And this waterfall was made of all of those star lights of all these different sizes and
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colors and light, much more light, light that I can't see with my human eyes, infrared and
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ultraviolet and x-ray and more and more and more.
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And they were all in this flow that was flowing out of this rend in the darkness, flowing
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down, flowing out.
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And it was like pearlescence.
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And it was like a fish scales.
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And it was also all pure white.
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So it's simultaneously all this light of all these different colors, all these different
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frequencies and also all at the same time, singularly this white brilliant light.
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And it had a surface to it and it had a translucence to it.
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I could see into the depth of it and a transparency.
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I could see through it into a tunnel.
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And it was the most seductive, desirous, brilliant, no thingness I'd ever seen.
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I'm in a place of nothingness.
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And even this light is no thing.
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So it approached me and I approached it and I touched it with my energy self.
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And as I touched it with my energy self, myself opened and it poured into me as I entered
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into it.
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And as all of this happened, there was this simultaneousness to everything that happened
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next.
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And I tell it in a sequence, but there's no sequence in timelessness.
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I spent many years of my life trying to construct a way of thinking about it in order to say
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it to myself so that I could understand in my head what my soul knows.
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So this entity infills me and as it comes into me, it's all life with all capital letters.
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It is all life of all of the universe.
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It is the universe itself and more.
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It's the creator of all there is.
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And it pours into me in this purity that expands me and shows me myself.
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I see my origin as a creature, not just a human creature, but as a consciousness creature.
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I hear my soul name being called into being in the now, always being made, always being
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called into being.
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And I see simultaneously this forever and ever eon length of the existence of my soul
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that has an origin.
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And as I see the origin of it, as my name is being spoken without language, it's bringing
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me into being on and on and on.
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And for all these eons, I see the very moment of my creation and the creator says, I am
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creator and you are creature.
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And it shows me my origin of myself.
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And it's like I'm a singular photon, one photon.
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And there's a field, a universe sized field of photons and goes back into a universe is
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depth and more than that.
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And it is one consciousness and it's made up of all of these separate photons like them.
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And the them is one.
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And I am the same substance of it.
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I have made of a single photon of it and I am outside of it.
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I am outside of it and connected to it.
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But I am a reduction of it.
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And in my reduction of it, it is also me, but I am so much infinitely smaller than it.
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And I am told that I am made, I am created and this is creator.
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And this it shows me my other lives in this long elongation of the length of the life
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of my consciousness.
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I see all these other lives that I had lived embodied in different forms.
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And some of them were humanized.
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I was shown into one that was a human life.
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I was shown into one that I don't know what it was an animal life, an alien life.
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I have no place of reference, but I can bring my mind back into the inhabitation of these
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other lives and see through the eyes of the one I was inhabiting that was me, but me in
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another time or world or form.
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And after I was withdrawn from these two, I knew that neither of them and none of these
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other lives were actually me.
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That the me who is truly me is this soul that's above all of these lives through which these
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lives are being lived.
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The soul lives into these lives.
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My soul was living these lives, but it was my soul was so much bigger than any of these
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lives.
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And also I saw my human life, my recent human life, and I was embodied back into my recent
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human life in my life review.
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So I'm being told that I am creature, that I am made, that I am eternal, that I am made
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of light, and I'm also shown that I am also human and that I had lived a physical life.
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And this physical life that I had just left, my life review was to go through all of the
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suffering that everyone in my life had lived because of me.
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So I was inhabited inside of their bodies in this chronological order where I experienced
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all of their emotions and psychology and pain and anger and confusion that I also overcame
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over on the other side was experiencing from my original human point of view, all of the
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reasons and emotions that I was intentionally inflicting this pain on them.
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And so I had this another by location.
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I was both the human self who caused the pain and I was the humans, all the humans that
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I had caused the pain to and the pain that I gave away was magnified.
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It was so much greater than the pain I thought I had been giving like by a magnitude of 10,000.
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It was so much more and I found that all the pain that I had given away was mine.
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It accrued to me and I felt it in myself and inside of myself as I felt this pain of these
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people that I had caused this suffering to, I felt guilty.
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I judged myself and I judged myself not for because I was also being shown simultaneously
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all of humanity's brokenness.
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So I see my own brokenness.
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I see the real pain that I gave away.
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I see the pain that every human gives away.
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I see the structure of the universe being made in a way that everything consumes something
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else.
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Everything hurts something else that this is the nature of the universe and that it
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wasn't my fault that I made these choices in the origin of my humanity, but it was my
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choice as a human to cause these pains.
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And there was this radical equality of all the brokenness of humanity.
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There was no one worse or one better in comparison to the divine that was this perfection and
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this purity that was speaking inside of me and was next to me and surrounding me, but
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I couldn't see it.
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And as it spoke to me, I began to hear it through the ear of my heart and with the ear
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of my heart where all this love had been accumulated through my life, all the love I had given
264
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away and all the love had been given to me, I began to hear this love that was being spoken
265
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to me saying, I know you, I've always known you.
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I've always known you as a human being while you caused all this pain and even while you
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caused it, I still loved you to the amount of love that you now feel.
268
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I have always loved you with this.
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And as I listened to this, all of my pain went away.
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All of the pain I had ever caused anyone was gone and all of the pain I had had gone.
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I went through this profound healing and wellness and influx and inflow as I expanded of this
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multiple aspect of love and the voices saying, I love you, I know you, I've always known
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you, I forgive you, I welcome you, come home to me.
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And it filled me with truth and knowledge and understanding, joy, bliss, adoration,
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love, healing, wholeness, wellness, bliss, paradise, love, beauty, all one thing.
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And I wanted, as I expanded, I knew that I could know whatever I wanted to know and I
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wanted to know about the structure of the universe and I was shown all the astronomy
278
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and cosmology and chemistry and biology and geology and physics.
279
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I understood so much of the structure of it, but I couldn't comprehend the making of it.
280
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It was still beyond my capacity for understanding even in my soul nature where I had no brain
281
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,280
in the way of the acquisition of knowledge or the processing of information.
282
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:26,560
And all of this was happening as I expanded and expanded into this state of adoration
283
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:32,280
and this light that was a total fulfillment of me and surrounded in the light, being in
284
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:37,960
the light, but I was still somehow not in the fullness of the divine because I reached
285
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this place in the infinite.
286
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:48,320
I reached this place at the edge of this expansion that was being done to me where it felt like
287
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:55,040
one more molecule of the divine self and I would obliterate and annihilate and enfold
288
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,160
back into the origin of me.
289
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:07,020
And at that point, I became conscious of that and I was reduced back to size again.
290
00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:16,200
So my expansion contracted and when I contracted, I had a remembrance of my human life and I
291
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:21,800
said without sound or voice or lips or brain or words, am I dead?
292
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:27,120
And the voice was again next to me, but I could not see was all there was around me.
293
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:33,440
I was in the belly of the divine and I said, and it was also very personal and directly
294
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,600
inside of me and next to me.
295
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,120
It said, yes, you're dead.
296
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,920
And I said, well, I can't die now.
297
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,960
And the voice said, why it's time to come home.
298
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:49,440
And I said, my parents are suffering because my sister had vanished and now they've gone
299
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,960
through a lifetime of mourning and grief and they're going to lose me.
300
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,960
And now they're going to have this whole suffering compounded.
301
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:09,160
And in that instant, I was swept across heaven, this dark void of light and no thingness to
302
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:17,400
this edge where it's like the Higgs boson energy field where energy becomes matter.
303
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:23,680
Part of my consciousness was tucked outside of heaven through this field of creation,
304
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:31,640
seeing with my soul self, all of the universe, most of me, 99% of me is still in the bosom
305
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:32,640
of heaven.
306
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,600
But this small part of me can now see all of the universe and all of the galaxies all
307
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,220
the way back to the beginning of the beginning of the universe.
308
00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:46,920
And as I look and see this voice is speaking, all of heaven is speaking inside of me, still
309
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:47,920
in heaven.
310
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:54,880
The same voice is speaking inside all the universe and at the beginning of the universe,
311
00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:02,080
there is this unfolding of love, this love that is greater and larger than the whole
312
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,460
of the universe.
313
00:23:03,460 --> 00:23:09,560
And it's like a wave that pours out and it pours through all of the matter that there
314
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:15,520
is being created in the moment that I'm there and being created for billions and billions
315
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,520
of years.
316
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:24,240
And there's this unfolding of love as the voice continues to show itself as it unfolds
317
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:30,400
universe after universe after universe, multiple universes unfolding and unfolding and unfolding
318
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:36,840
and all of them filled with the same divine love that is inside this darkness that I cannot
319
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,440
still see.
320
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,520
There's this point at which my vision ends and out of this place, this darkness spills
321
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,480
all of this love that pervades everything there is.
322
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:55,000
And as I watch this, my vision is taken back to our galaxy, down to our solar system, down
323
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,680
to earth and earth, I see earth in real time.
324
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,960
I see it as it is.
325
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:04,800
I see half the planet in darkness and half the planet in sunshine and clouds and rain
326
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:11,680
storms and human beings doing every human being thing, all 7 billion people all simultaneously
327
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:18,240
and inside of all of them as they there's murder and rape and love and beauty and ships
328
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,600
and factories.
329
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:26,000
And I see people doing everybody doing the shopping and frying eggs and inside of every
330
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:32,560
single person, there's this flak of golden light that is the same that is inside of all
331
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,560
there is.
332
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:39,260
But in these humans, it's illuminated brilliantly and none can see it in the other.
333
00:24:39,260 --> 00:24:43,920
And I can see it as plainly as the sun in the sky.
334
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:50,060
And the whole earth is covered with this thick foam through which no one could see and see.
335
00:24:50,060 --> 00:24:55,020
And as all of this is unfolding, all of this love for all of these universes and all of
336
00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:58,120
our universe is pointed directly at me.
337
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:04,200
There is this particular beauty of love that I am the most beloved in all of all of the
338
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:10,120
universes, I am the one, the receiver of all this immense love that goes on for eternity
339
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:16,480
and from timelessness and that every single human being is beloved just like me.
340
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:26,640
And so there's this prodigal child, prodigal son come home to the family and the most beloved.
341
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:32,360
And yet this is true for me, but everyone is most beloved.
342
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,520
All are most beloved.
343
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,400
And the voice says to me, nothing is lost.
344
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All is me.
345
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All belongs, all I am.
346
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,760
I am all there is and I am love beyond measure.
347
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:55,800
And because of my love, all is well, has been well and will be well for all human beings,
348
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:03,240
for all of the universes because I am love of this immense measure.
349
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:11,900
And so I then see my parents' faces and I see all of their accumulated suffering over
350
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:15,600
all these years, all in their expressions.
351
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:21,160
I see into their suffering and I see parallel lives sort of behind them.
352
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:28,920
I see a life without me, with me dead and a life with me living.
353
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:35,160
And I have this comparison of the suffering between the two and the suffering with me
354
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,800
living is much less than the without me, which was full of abject brokenness.
355
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:48,720
But the end of both tracks for both my parents ended in this beauty, ended in the sameness
356
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,480
as me.
357
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,600
And the voice said, now you see nothing is lost and suffering ends.
358
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,560
So stay because in a moment, and I understood then that the length of my human life, of
359
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:06,840
any life I've ever lived is the snap of a finger and that in a snap of a finger, my
360
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:14,600
parents would be dead on either track and be welcomed back into this abundant love.
361
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,880
And then as I saw this, I was given a choice.
362
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,560
And I said, if I go back there, can I come back here?
363
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,660
And the voice said, yes, you can come back here.
364
00:27:28,660 --> 00:27:30,120
You get to choose.
365
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:34,660
It's time for you to come, but you get to choose.
366
00:27:34,660 --> 00:27:39,560
And I said, well, if I can come back here, then I choose to live my life.
367
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:45,520
And the voice said, you won't live your life and flipped me away like a pebble off a finger
368
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,760
and accompanied me in wrapping me with the same angelic form, but also with the fullness
369
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,320
of the divine presence.
370
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,560
And as I am carried away, I get denser and denser.
371
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,320
And suddenly in front of me, there was a million doors and all these million doors are in concentric
372
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:07,740
circles and all of them are tunnels that lead back to my life as a human being.
373
00:28:07,740 --> 00:28:09,520
And each one is different.
374
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:16,640
And in the center of all of them is a beam of white light, much larger than all the doors.
375
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:22,460
And there are rings close to the light and getting further away from it.
376
00:28:22,460 --> 00:28:28,440
And the light itself fades to dullness at the furthest edge of these millions of doors
377
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,600
of choice, of lives to live.
378
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,320
And the voice said to me, choose.
379
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,240
And choose light.
380
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,540
Choose.
381
00:28:38,540 --> 00:28:40,680
But I didn't want the purity of light.
382
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,380
I wanted some selfness.
383
00:28:42,380 --> 00:28:44,280
I wanted some humanness.
384
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,320
I chose outside of the light.
385
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,960
I wanted the light with all of my being, but I wanted enough.
386
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:58,700
There was enough of me of a human self there now, enough of an ego that I wanted some selfness.
387
00:28:58,700 --> 00:29:02,400
And I made this choice and down this tunnel I went.
388
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,360
And in that tunnel, I saw all of the probabilities of my life.
389
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,480
All the choices that I could make.
390
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,520
All the choices that would lead to other tunnels.
391
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:25,080
And all of this at the end of my tunnel, I came down to my body being carried and crushed.
392
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:31,660
The further I went from the divine self in heaven, the smaller I became.
393
00:29:31,660 --> 00:29:33,800
But it wasn't like I was shrinking in proportion.
394
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,720
It was like space was being taken out from inside of me.
395
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:43,000
And I was becoming denser and denser and denser and heavier and heavier until we got to my
396
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,760
body, which I could see.
397
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:54,040
I was shown my body and then this angelic being took me and jabbed me into the right
398
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,760
in the center of my heart, of my clavicle.
399
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,520
Not clavicle, but my breastbone.
400
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:06,240
Into the center of my breastbone and like screwed me into the body in a very painful
401
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,320
way.
402
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:14,600
And I was suddenly being in, I had been crushed down and like a fluid poured inside this body.
403
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,400
And I could see up through this opening.
404
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,320
And then I watched the opening close.
405
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:27,160
And then I felt my brain start to re-engage, kind of were up like a computer.
406
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,760
And as it came back online again, I had this wash of suffering.
407
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,240
I was in a container.
408
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,380
I was trapped.
409
00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:37,720
I was imprisoned inside of this physicality.
410
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,760
And this brain thing came back online.
411
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,960
And then my ears began to hear sound.
412
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,120
And as I listened, it formulated into language.
413
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,600
And as I listened, it was, don't die, don't die.
414
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,880
And my body's being moved and I'm hearing this loud noise.
415
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,880
Then I opened my eyes and there is Tim looking down over me.
416
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,440
Don't die, don't die.
417
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,560
And then he's, you were dead.
418
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,560
You're alive, you're dead.
419
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,160
And stands me up and I am completely confused.
420
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,840
I don't know who he is or where I am or what this thing is that I'm inside of.
421
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,400
But as he's talking to me and my brain continues to come back online and all I feel is pain.
422
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,680
I'm just filled with physical pain.
423
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:19,680
Everything hurts.
424
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:20,680
I'm exhausted.
425
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:21,680
I'm hungry.
426
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,680
I'm thirsty.
427
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:23,680
I'm scared.
428
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,940
My body is confused by the pain.
429
00:31:25,940 --> 00:31:31,880
And I know that I'm not this thing and that I had been somewhere and that somewhere I
430
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,640
had been was my true self.
431
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,000
But so much of it was cut off from me.
432
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,520
As soon as I entered my body, there was this great loss of this strong connection.
433
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,560
Peter, before we move on, that was amazing.
434
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:53,520
I've never had a guest on the show that I let talk that long without stopping.
435
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,300
And it was interesting to see your eyes closed.
436
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:04,640
And I felt like you were reliving this whole thing as if it were happening again.
437
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,320
You looked that intense.
438
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,480
And I just wanted to make sure that our listeners understood that.
439
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,520
It was amazingly real to sit and watch.
440
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:23,200
Do you mind if before we talk about the rescue and stuff, if we go back and I ask you a couple
441
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,880
questions, please, what did you learn about God from all this compared to what you knew
442
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,920
before?
443
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,680
I knew nothing before I went to Catholic high school.
444
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,920
I learned I read one of the gospels every year I grazed in the church, but nothing.
445
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:40,960
God is no thing.
446
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:41,960
There was no gender.
447
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:42,960
There was no religion.
448
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:51,120
There was just love and power beyond any imagination that I could ever conceive of that I was made
449
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,660
of the divine light itself, that I had lived many lives, that none of those lives were
450
00:32:56,660 --> 00:32:59,800
actually me, that I am actually this consciousness.
451
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:07,840
I'm actually this divine being that is constantly being created in the now, always in the now.
452
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:13,360
And that God had no physicality.
453
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:19,240
It was like I talk about love and beauty and joy and healing and wholeness and hope and
454
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,880
knowledge and they were all one thing.
455
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,000
There was no separation between them.
456
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,080
They were not, you know, truth is over here and knowledge is over there and wisdom is
457
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,200
down the street.
458
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:36,920
They were one being and this one being was infinite beyond love, beyond my understanding,
459
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,600
love beyond my human capacity of grasping.
460
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,120
Pretty much nothing I had learned.
461
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,480
All of my faith vanished in the moment that I awoke.
462
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,160
I was zero believer.
463
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,320
I was zero with faith.
464
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,760
All of that was gone from me in an instant.
465
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:03,200
Only the thing that mattered to me for all of my life until today, it's the divine light
466
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,200
itself.
467
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,020
It's this energy that's ineffable.
468
00:34:06,020 --> 00:34:11,540
There's an ineffability to it and that everything that can be said about the divine is de facto
469
00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:14,300
wrong because there is no language.
470
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:16,000
There are no things there.
471
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,080
There's no thing there.
472
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,080
There's no brain.
473
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,080
There's no language.
474
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,080
There's just concepts.
475
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,080
There's no ideas.
476
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,520
It's this energy that's even beyond the word energy.
477
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,720
It's love beyond imagination.
478
00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:29,740
It's living.
479
00:34:29,740 --> 00:34:37,600
It's living and it knows everything and it loves everyone.
480
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,140
It loves the rat in the New York subway with the pizza in its mouth.
481
00:34:41,140 --> 00:34:45,660
It loves the eagle that comes down and eats the fish.
482
00:34:45,660 --> 00:34:51,360
It loves the star that explodes and takes away the planet, everything.
483
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,360
There's nothing.
484
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,280
There's nothing that is not it.
485
00:34:55,280 --> 00:35:01,800
All that there is here is infinitesimal compared to its actual size, which is immeasurable.
486
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,800
Yeah.
487
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:09,240
I feel bad for people who may have been listening to this while they were doing something else
488
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:16,260
because the beautiful way that you described it, you got your money's worth out of your
489
00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:24,040
adjectives today, my friend, is really fascinating.
490
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,580
And if I wasn't really paying attention, I'm sure I would have missed a lot of it and not
491
00:35:27,580 --> 00:35:29,360
understood some of it.
492
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,520
So I'm going to ask you to do something here that's going to be difficult.
493
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,640
And if you can say no, if you want to.
494
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:43,040
I would love you to explain what happened to you as if you were talking to a six year
495
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,480
old.
496
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,800
So very, very simple primary kinds of terms.
497
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,640
And in if you only have one or two minutes to do it, because that's the attention span
498
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,200
of that child.
499
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,960
I have had experience with telling this to a six year old, even to a four year old.
500
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,420
I said, honey, you know that I'm different.
501
00:36:07,420 --> 00:36:12,520
You know that I have this other way of living.
502
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,120
It's because I died.
503
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:24,620
And when I died and went away, I went to the to heaven where only love exists and where
504
00:36:24,620 --> 00:36:31,120
my strength and light comes from, where you are from, where we are all from.
505
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,320
And unusually, I got to come back.
506
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,640
Unlike great Grampy, he's gone over.
507
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:46,080
But I can tell you, having been there, that he still lives and he still loves you.
508
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,120
And as much as I love you.
509
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,120
That's it.
510
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,120
I like that.
511
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,080
That says just as much, I think.
512
00:36:54,080 --> 00:37:01,960
I think it's fascinating that while you were given a choice whether to come back or not,
513
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:08,360
it almost sounded like it had already been determined for you to stay there or, in other
514
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,840
words, dead in this life, to stay to stay in that heavenly place.
515
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,520
But you brought it up.
516
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:21,000
You mentioned about your parents and how devastated and how painful it would be for them.
517
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,040
Do you think that that had something to do with you then being given the choice whether
518
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,560
to come back or not?
519
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:28,800
I've thought a lot about that.
520
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,880
If you know, God is omniscient.
521
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:37,500
How did the how did the divine not know that that scenario would unfold?
522
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:42,680
You know, so I I land in the space of paradox with it.
523
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,880
I did bring it up.
524
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,480
I brought it up because I also was shown the length of a human life.
525
00:37:49,480 --> 00:38:00,040
The snap of a finger and the amount of bliss and healing made me think that I could endure
526
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,980
anything.
527
00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:03,600
That's it.
528
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,200
I made this choice a second time.
529
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:12,920
I died in 2015 of a heart attack and an ambulance on the way to get a stent.
530
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,640
And I died in the ambulance.
531
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:20,720
And I I chose again to come back for this now seven year old.
532
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:29,600
And and each time I was welcomed home and each time I know that I'm I live a separate
533
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,880
timeline now.
534
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:40,080
So the parallel lives I saw of my parents with or without me, they wouldn't have known
535
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,880
either way what it would have been like on the other path.
536
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,360
But I do.
537
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:53,240
And so whatever the whatever reason I was given a choice for.
538
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,200
I don't really know the answer.
539
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,360
I I know that I brought it up.
540
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:04,040
I know that there were some weight that I was even though I had gone through this purgative
541
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:11,040
fire of divine love that cleansed me of all of the karma that I had carried with me.
542
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:20,400
There was still this love that of attachment to my parents, caring for this for them because
543
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,320
of my my stupid mistakes.
544
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,920
They were going to cause them great suffering.
545
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,360
I don't understand more than that yet.
546
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,360
Right.
547
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,000
And you describe the stamp of a finger a couple of times.
548
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,840
And sometimes when I hear something like that, I think, well, that's scary.
549
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,340
You know, life goes by so fast.
550
00:39:42,340 --> 00:39:48,180
On the other hand, it can bring great comfort when you're talking about, oh, I just lost
551
00:39:48,180 --> 00:39:54,600
a loved one or something along those lines to think that.
552
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,260
That it's all going to.
553
00:39:56,260 --> 00:40:02,240
That's OK, because the reuniting comes quickly in the great big scheme of things with our
554
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,640
little earthly eyes and our tunnel vision.
555
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,760
It seems like, well, that's going to be forever.
556
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:14,800
But I believe that it really does go quickly, like what you're saying in a good way of quickly.
557
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,480
The funny thing I talk with elderly people, one of the funny things I learned from elderly
558
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,240
people is that the older you get, the faster time moves.
559
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:22,720
Now, we know that that's not true.
560
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,880
Time doesn't actually move faster, but that's the way it feels to pretty much every elderly
561
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,320
person that there is.
562
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:39,800
But from my point of view, the point of view that was shown to me, my self identity isn't.
563
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,880
My primary self identity is my heavenly self and my eternal nature.
564
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,320
And so I live my life knowing its brevity.
565
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,560
And this brevity actually gives me this, well, it gives me courage.
566
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:55,700
It gives me strength.
567
00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:00,440
It gives me wonder and adventure.
568
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:12,280
It gives me a form of selflessness that has enabled me to, when I was a pastor, to live
569
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:21,520
a very daring sort of interventionist kind of ministry, working with domestic violence
570
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:31,720
and lots of other violent circumstances as an extreme example.
571
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:39,760
But also in my daily life, the knowledge of my own death is the freest thing about me.
572
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,120
Knowing that I'm going to be freed from this temporary place helps me overcome suffering,
573
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,440
my own suffering.
574
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,860
It helps me be a witness to my own life.
575
00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:56,440
It allows me the space and freedom to pursue my interior journey knowing that this shell
576
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,920
that I live inside of is expendable.
577
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:05,680
It's given me opportunity to choose against my cultural context and pursue this mystical
578
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:12,760
life when what would have been beneficial to my family is to have lived a more capitalist
579
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,860
lifestyle.
580
00:42:15,860 --> 00:42:20,120
But I see all of these things as so temporary.
581
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:25,520
And there are consequences for my choices because I'm a human being.
582
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,560
But there's a consequence for my life I foresee.
583
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:29,760
People ask me what I foresee.
584
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,600
I foresee myself.
585
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,120
I foresee my own light.
586
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,440
I foresee my entrance to heaven.
587
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:44,560
I don't know that I will or will not go through a hell, but I know that my connection to there
588
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,680
is myself.
589
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:56,640
And so I see the eye wherein I see God, God sees me, said Meister Eckhart.
590
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,200
And that light is who I am.
591
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,880
So I don't grieve like other people do.
592
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,120
I miss I'm sorrowful when people die.
593
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:15,880
My dad, my sister, my cousin, friends, dogs.
594
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,640
But there is no death.
595
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,400
That's a very strong motivator.
596
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,000
Well we better get on to chapter three.
597
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,820
Okay, you're back in reality, right?
598
00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:31,680
You're up on that cliff face.
599
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,240
Adam grabs you and repeat what he said and what he did.
600
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:38,640
So I come back into my body.
601
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:39,640
Is that what you mean?
602
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:40,640
Yes.
603
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,080
Okay, so I'm back inside my body.
604
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:49,880
My brain words back on and my ears open up and I hear this sound as I begin to understand
605
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,960
that that's language and I begin to understand that this is being words being spoken and
606
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,240
screamed at me.
607
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:57,680
And as I listen, I hear you.
608
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:58,680
Don't die.
609
00:43:58,680 --> 00:43:59,680
Don't die.
610
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:00,680
Don't die.
611
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:08,120
And as I listen, I open my eyes and I see Tim leaning over me, grabbing me, shaking
612
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:09,120
my body.
613
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,120
And I see the look of surprise on his face.
614
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:16,840
So my eyes open up and he's crying and he's screaming and he's yelling, you were dead.
615
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:17,840
You were dead.
616
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:18,840
I thought you were dead.
617
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:19,840
You were dead.
618
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:20,840
I thought you were dead.
619
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:25,840
He stands me up and I'm weak and I'm disoriented and I don't know who I am and I don't know
620
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:31,120
who he is and I don't know where I am and just understand that I am in this suffering
621
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,520
body that is this prison that I had just returned to.
622
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,000
And I know that this isn't me.
623
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:43,880
I still remember this other self, but all of the 99% of the information I had moments
624
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,800
ago is now lost to me.
625
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:50,680
But I know that I am inhabiting this body and that it's not who I am.
626
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:55,080
And as he's talking to me, I'm not listening to what he's saying.
627
00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,760
I'm just kind of adjusting to all of this world.
628
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,320
And finally, I listened to him and he's saying, pull the rope.
629
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,960
And I pulled the rope and the rope came free.
630
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,360
So in this, every time I had fallen asleep, I had landed more on the ledge.
631
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:19,220
And this time when I fell asleep, pardon me, when I died, I rolled a little bit further
632
00:45:19,220 --> 00:45:23,320
to the edge and that must have brought the rope free.
633
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,160
I don't know what else could have done it.
634
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,080
Miracle of some kind and I stand back up again.
635
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,600
And as I stood back up again, the rope must have come loose.
636
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,080
And I pulled it as he told me to.
637
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,020
And the rope came free.
638
00:45:37,020 --> 00:45:42,360
And we put it through the ring and he descended and I followed him down.
639
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:47,280
And at the bottom, we crossed the icefields parkway to the parking lot across the street.
640
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,040
And we took out the tent.
641
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,280
And at my insistence that we don't jump in the car and turn on the heater because we
642
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,360
couldn't heat up our bodies too fast because we're frostbitten and hypothermic.
643
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,940
So we had to bring our temperatures back up much more slowly.
644
00:45:58,940 --> 00:46:02,160
We went climbed into this tent that had a, it's an Arctic tent.
645
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:07,680
It had a chimney and a vent so we could light our stoves inside it without asphyxiation.
646
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,840
So we lit our stoves and we warmed water slowly.
647
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:16,880
We stripped naked and got into our sleeping bags and huddled next to each other and sipped
648
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:23,560
cool to warm to hot to eating and we warmed our bodies back up enough to get into the
649
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,880
car to fire up the heater and to raise our temperatures.
650
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:36,040
And by then the sun was up and we, when we were warm enough and we had our senses back
651
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,160
and we could think more clearly, we packed up our gear and we were loading the car when
652
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:48,760
the warden pulled in and get out of his vehicle and his truck and said to me, to us, are you,
653
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,920
were you the boys on the mountain last night?
654
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,280
Yes, sir.
655
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:53,280
We were.
656
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,600
He said, well, I've come to see if I needed to requisition the helicopter to collect your
657
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,080
bodies.
658
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:10,640
And that was this shock to hear from him and his worry and his concern and his warning.
659
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,840
It made it all more real, didn't it?
660
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:13,840
Oh yeah.
661
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:22,520
And off we went and embarked on 24 more hours of crazy adventures of totaled the car.
662
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,320
We spent time in the clink, just a terrible next 24 hours.
663
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,760
Oh man, some other show for that one.
664
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,400
Oh my goodness.
665
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,400
Wow.
666
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,760
I don't even know what to say after all that.
667
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,280
How does that change your life?
668
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:45,160
And I don't mean, I mean, we can already tell this has been a deep change in your life,
669
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:51,960
but if someone who maybe you grew up with saw you 30 years later, what would they be
670
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,320
surprised at how different you were?
671
00:47:54,320 --> 00:48:01,040
Well, I'm going to my, I went to a Catholic school, but my high school, the city high
672
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,120
school that I would have gone to is having its reunion in a month.
673
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,000
And I'm going to be doing just what you said.
674
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,040
I'm going to be seeing people I haven't seen in 30 years.
675
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,000
And they knew me when.
676
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,680
So I've been trying to figure out what I'm going to say to them.
677
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:24,200
I guess I'll say to them that, you know, when I was in college, I died and I had a radical
678
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:25,420
change in my life.
679
00:48:25,420 --> 00:48:30,360
And that's why I didn't go into my dad's business because most of them know my dad or knew my
680
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:31,920
dad or many of them did.
681
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,840
I didn't go into my dad's business and I went off in this other direction.
682
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:41,760
I would keep it light, but if they were curious, I'd tell them the deeper truth.
683
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:47,200
I died and had a union experience and I came back an entirely different person.
684
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:53,320
And I live, I've lived my life of these 40 years in interior practice.
685
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:59,120
I've become a scholar and a storyteller and I've been, I dove deep into the literature,
686
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:04,680
the ancient literature, East and West and read everything and studied.
687
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,840
And now this is my life.
688
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,960
And yes, I was that person before and now I'm this person.
689
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:17,080
I, I'll still have fun with you guys.
690
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:21,160
But I am not who you used to know.
691
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,400
And you seem very at peace with all that.
692
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,080
Oh, I can't be any other way.
693
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,080
I hid.
694
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,680
So I kept this a secret for 20 years.
695
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:32,480
I locked my lips and I pretended that this didn't have, I knew it happened to me and
696
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,500
I was working on my interior life the entire time, but I didn't tell anybody.
697
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:42,160
But my, my, my eccentricities were obvious to everybody.
698
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:49,400
And this, this, and my eccentricities were sometimes funny, sometimes strange and sometimes
699
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,600
courageous.
700
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,440
And the, none of that came from me.
701
00:49:55,440 --> 00:50:06,040
It all came from my, I don't know, point of view that I'm passing through and that there
702
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:13,040
are higher orders and things that matter that mattered to me that don't matter to you.
703
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:19,000
And it wasn't until there was this big embezzlement in the church I was serving.
704
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,680
And when that was all over, I came out to my congregation and then everybody in my town
705
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,040
knew about my NDE.
706
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,760
And then I ended up with it, had this TV show for all these years.
707
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:35,760
And I poked around trying to feel out my larger audience, whether I could talk about this.
708
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,440
And then I came out with my book, which kind of popped me out.
709
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:45,520
But it wasn't until the month that my book came out, I died a second time of this heart
710
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:46,520
attack.
711
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:53,300
And so I was in, I was in the hospital room from having been gone through ICU and I got
712
00:50:53,300 --> 00:51:00,320
a phone call that day from my publisher saying, who didn't know I'd had a heart attack and
713
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:01,320
died.
714
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,100
And when I told him, he's like, Oh, Peter, Peter, that's just too much.
715
00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:06,800
You can't have two people.
716
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,320
This is just too much, Peter.
717
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:18,120
But if my book was coming out a month early, and I had said goodbye to my wife, see you,
718
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:19,120
honey.
719
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,820
You know, I've been waiting to go home.
720
00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:25,520
But then I chose to come back because my kids needed me and my granddaughter needed me.
721
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,720
And then I stopped.
722
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:36,120
I changed again, near death experience, mystical experiences, cause a reformation of the identity.
723
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:42,560
And in my new identity, I was at ease with who I was and who I was becoming.
724
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:48,840
And I was no longer going to pretend in any circumstances that this wasn't who I am.
725
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:53,300
And so now and I continue to live in this coastal main town.
726
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:56,720
One of the reasons why I love living here is because I had been the pastor here and
727
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:02,560
they'd all seen my antics, everything from, well, helping with embezzlements and murders
728
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,900
and arsons and domestic violence to being a stilt walker and running a chainsaw during
729
00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:09,360
a sermon and all sorts of crazy stuff.
730
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,520
And they like me, they know me.
731
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:17,840
And so I feel like I can just be me here.
732
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:24,520
And now I can just be me wherever I go, partly because of my community here.
733
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,560
They just accept me as I am.
734
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:40,760
And fear of being thought of as insane was always a powerful motivator to keep my mouth
735
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:41,760
shut.
736
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:48,520
As was the instruction that I was given to be a missionary, to be a messenger, to be,
737
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:53,800
and then have no words for this and no way to communicate the, the, the shock tea of
738
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:54,800
it.
739
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,200
I knew what the energy was.
740
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,800
I felt it inside myself.
741
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,480
I couldn't communicate that energy to anybody, let alone with words.
742
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:08,500
So people that have had NDE's, it often takes a long time to process.
743
00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:10,480
What could we do to help people?
744
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,600
It's going through that kind of situation.
745
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,280
Well, you're doing it right here in this podcast because you're letting people know that there
746
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,760
are tens of millions of us who've gone through this.
747
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:24,360
And part of my problem, part of my problem was that I didn't have anybody to talk to.
748
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,640
Now at least we have people to talk to.
749
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,880
I hear that a lot because if they, if you try to talk to somebody, they think you're
750
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:37,560
crazy, especially 20 or 30 years ago, mostly not as bad today.
751
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:43,080
Last thought I want from you, pretend I'm that, uh, your seven year old granddaughter
752
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,200
again.
753
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,080
What's one thing that I can learn from this?
754
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,640
That I will always love you.
755
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,840
There is no end to my love.
756
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,440
Peter Panagor, thank you very much.
757
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:56,440
Thanks Eric.
758
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,440
Thanks for having me.
759
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,400
If you have had a round trip death experience, we would love to hear about it.
760
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,120
Send an email to eric at roundtripdeath.com.
761
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:12,440
And lastly, if you have found this program uplifting, if it's given you just a little
762
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:17,640
more hope in the future, share it with a friend, hit that follow button and take a few seconds
763
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,800
to write us a review.
764
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,680
Until next time, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and
765
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:49,080
the next.
