Transcript
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Welcome to Round Trip Death and Merry Christmas.
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Today we're going to hear from a retired U.S. Navy veteran and his experience of when
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his plane went down.
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But before we do, I'd like to ask a small favor.
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If you appreciate this show and its message, please click over to roundtripdeath.com.
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In the upper right corner of the homepage you'll see a little donate button.
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If you'd like to help us keep the lights on for another season, click there and be generous.
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Thank you in advance.
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And now let's hear about Tony's plane crash.
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Today we are thrilled to have on the line with us Tony Woody, retired chief petty officer
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from the U.S. Navy.
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Served 20 plus years as a flight engineer.
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I'm going to call him a hero because I can see over his shoulder he's got a bunch of
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medals and things.
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And anyway, we appreciate you and your service.
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Tony, how are you today?
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Doing okay.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for inviting me on.
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Well you're very welcome.
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And when I heard your story and things that you've done since then, I found it fascinating
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and just wanted to talk.
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So I'm glad you're here.
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And if you don't mind, let's start clear back and talk about, I mean, what what got you
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into the Navy and what got you into flying?
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Well, I grew up in a small town in East Texas and there was nothing really there for me
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at a high school.
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For instance, we had 37 people in my senior class.
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So there's no industry there.
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It's just farming or you have something to do with the school or something or small business.
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And so my dad had been in the Navy.
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He was in World War Two.
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And I decided I was going to go into the Navy before I even got out of high school.
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So I did early enlistment and did boot camp, went to Memphis, Tennessee for A school and
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then got sent to my first command.
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And I wanted to go into aviation.
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I knew that.
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And so I went in to learn to be a jet engine mechanic.
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So my first tour of duty, I got sent to Jacksonville, Florida to patrol squadron 49.
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Now, I didn't know as a kid that squadrons had nicknames like the blue sharks or the
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gray knights.
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So I just see patrol squadron 49 on my on my orders.
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Sorry about the dog.
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I can't do anything about that.
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That's OK.
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A little dog barking makes it real.
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Yeah, he's real.
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All right.
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So where was I?
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Squad 49.
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Oh, so all it says on my orders is patrol squadron 49.
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So I go to the squadron duty office and I check on board and I realized that I got sent
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to the VP 49 Woodpeckers for my first tour of duty.
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My last name is Woody.
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And I knew that wasn't an accident.
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And I know the guy in Washington, D.C., who wrote my orders, is probably laughing his
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butt off when he wrote my orders.
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I know where I'm sending this kid.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, that's funny.
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And, you know, woodpeckers don't seem like the meanest, toughest animals out there.
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They call themselves the world famous woodpeckers.
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I don't know.
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I don't know.
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There's a history to the squadron.
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It's been around for a long, long time.
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It's gone now, but there was a long history to it.
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So when you first check on to a squadron, they put you in a gay dunk, they call it.
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I mean, they put you in First Lieutenant Division, which is where you do the crap jobs for a
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few weeks, right?
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A few months until you get put into your work center and start learning your how to work
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on the engines and propellers and all that on the airplane.
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That was what I was supposed to go do.
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So I got put in many different jobs you can do.
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And I got put in the squadron snack bar.
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They called it a gay dunk.
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That's a nickname for it in the military.
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I don't know where that phrase comes from, but that just means, you know, place to go
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get food and snacks and things like that.
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And there was nobody in there at the time I was running the register and this commanding
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officer came in.
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I'm 10 days in the squadron.
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I'm a no nothing nugget, right?
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I'm an airman apprentice and I'm wearing my dungarees.
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It's got my name stenciled on my shirt and on my back, on my pants, on the above my right
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pocket on the back.
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And so he, skipper, my commanding officer comes in.
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I picked up on that by seeing his name tag.
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It said COVP 49 on it.
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I realized commanding officer, right?
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I'm like, that's my skipper.
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I realized that.
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So he made his order.
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He's got all his flight gear with him.
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He's going flying.
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He's happy.
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He's going to take some food.
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He's going to go to shoot touch and goes and he's an instructor pilot and teach another
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pilot and you know, they're going to go what we call the salt to runway for four hours
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shooting, goes and, and do some training.
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And so he's all happy.
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And then he makes his order.
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I turn around to get his stuff and I put it back on the counter.
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I look up at him and he's angry and I know it.
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You can see it in his face.
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There's something wrong and it's something to do with me.
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And I have no understanding what it is and I'm terrified.
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I'm only 18 years old.
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And he looks at me and he's serious and he goes, you know, son, just because you're in
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the VP 49 woodpeckers doesn't mean you can't stencil your proper name on your uniform.
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I'm like, I'm so scared.
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I can't talk.
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So I reflex action.
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I pulled my wallet out and I handed him my military ID card and he takes it in his hand.
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He looks at it and he looks over at it and raises his eyebrows.
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He goes, you mean I got a Woody in the woodpeckers?
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I said, yes, sir.
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I guess so.
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So he hands it back to me.
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Now he's really happy, right?
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He was already happy.
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He's going flying and now he's ecstatic.
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He just found out he's this commanding officer of the woodpeckers and he's got a Woody in
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the woodpeckers.
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He couldn't be more happy.
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And as he's going out the door, I blurted out a question.
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I said, Hey, skipper, what's it like to fly one of those big old birds?
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He smiled and said, come with me son and I'll show you.
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I was dumbfounded.
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I couldn't believe it.
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He hooks me up with the flight engineer and they get me a flight suit and all that.
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And I hang out with him for the whole pre-flight.
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I just didn't know anything.
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And I'm asking a billion questions and just loving it.
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And I'm sitting behind the pilot seat on the left side.
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There's a flat panel there when they're starting engines and we're getting ready to taxi out
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and go take off.
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And I don't know anything, right?
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I don't know anything about what I'm supposed to do in this thing.
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It's just watching.
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And so we get to the approach into the runway and I'm wondering if I ought to go get in
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a chair.
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I have no understanding of what the right thing is to do here.
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And the skipper's in the right seat.
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So I'm on the opposite side of the airplane and the engineer faces forward in that airplane
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and leans over and handles the power levers.
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When the pilot calls the power setting, they start pushing the power lever the pilot does.
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And he gets his rudder affected.
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He takes his hand off the power levers and the engineer finishes setting power, right?
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So that's how that job works.
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And there's all three facing forward.
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And so I'm on the left side and the skipper turns to the engineer.
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We're waiting for another plane to land.
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We've got about a 10-minute wait because his plane's about 10 or 15 miles out.
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And so the skipper turns to the engineer just as I'm going to ask, what should I do?
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And he looks at the engineer in the seat and says, what do you think?
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Should we put him in there?
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And I didn't know what he was talking about.
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And the engineer goes, yeah, absolutely.
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And he unbuckles his harness and he gets out of the seat and sits behind the skipper on
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the right side.
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And the skipper looks at me and tells me to get in the chair.
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And the next thing I know, and I'm like, I had this look on my face like, probably are
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you nuts?
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And he puts his hand up and says, don't worry, son.
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We'll tell you what to do.
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I jumped in and the next thing I know, I'm pushing power levers going down the runway.
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And we lift off the deck and the engineer is doing all the checklist stuff over my head
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right behind me.
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And I'm just, can't believe this.
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And then the skipper smacks me on my leg after they're done with the checklist on the downwind.
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He says, down leg turn.
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He goes, by the way, son, you know you could do this job.
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And for the next four hours, I sat in the seat and pushed power levers.
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Two hours earlier before that, I was selling hot dogs.
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Where else can you do that, man?
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That's really awesome.
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By the way, we have some younger listeners and I have a feeling they don't know who Woody
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Woodpecker is.
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You better tell them.
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Okay.
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It's a cartoon from the 50s and 60s when I was a kid growing up.
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And you can probably find it on YouTube.
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Just look up Woody Woodpecker.
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You'll find all kinds of cartoons probably.
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But okay, keep going with your story.
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So where was I?
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So we're in the air.
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So after that, after the flight and everything, after I was done in First Lieutenant Division
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doing my stint of time in there, I didn't go to power plant shop first.
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I went straight into the flight engineer shop at 18 years old and started learning how to
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be a flight engineer.
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I started on the job training.
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And at 21 years old, I earned my wings and I was signing for a 70 ton airplane at 21
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years old for the flight engineer duties, having a ball.
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And so that was in Jacksonville, Florida, and then did a couple of deployments with
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them and then moved to Barbas Point, Hawaii in 1982.
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By then I had about 3,500 hours of flight time.
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Getting ready to make me an instructor flight engineer at that point.
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I'm 24 years old, 23 at the time actually.
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So now I'm 24 and been in Hawaii for about a year, a little over a year, year and a half.
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And every two years on an even year, they do a huge military exercise called the RIMPAC,
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Rim of the Pacific, RIMPAC exercises.
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And it's all the Australia, everything all the way out.
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I mean, it's huge.
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It's gigantic.
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It takes them two years to prepare for the next one.
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That's why they do it every two years.
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It's so big.
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And so my crew is going out to do a flight.
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It's 12 man crew.
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When we are maxed out for takeoff weight and everything, we weigh 70 tons, carry 62,000
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pounds of fuel.
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So we're climbing out and get to about 10,000 feet to go do a 12 hour mission.
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And the chips light on number one engine comes on, which means the engine's making metal
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and you don't know if it's just a piece of fuzz or if it's chunks that are about to be
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a catastrophic failure.
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So you shut it down for precautionary shut down, we declare an emergency, start heading
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back to the base and have to dump some fuel.
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We got to get down to max allowable land weight.
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You can't land with all the fuel you had on board.
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So you don't damage the structural integrity of the airplane if you hit too hard.
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And so when you do an emergency landing, we brief that.
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We did that on the approach, coordinating with ground as well, air traffic control and
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ground.
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And we've got fire trucks on the side of the runway.
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There's six of them, one on each side.
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So they're spread out down the runway, but evenly.
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And as you go buy one, when you go buy a pair of them, they pull in behind you.
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And then the next two pulling behind them and so on to be right there in case anything
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goes wrong.
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Well, what happened was the pilot, when we landed, everything was normal when the main
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mounts touched down to main mount landing gears.
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When the nose gear came down, the pilot put in incorrect rudder.
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We expected a swerve to the right because two engines on that side are giving reverse
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thrust versus only one on the other.
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So you're going to have more force.
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It's going to pull you to the right.
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And we know that.
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I mean, it's common.
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We do that brief all the time.
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But instead of doing that, he put in the incorrect rudder.
243
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,000
Now, we're coming in fast because we're heavy.
244
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,560
Typically we land with 8,000 pounds of fuel left when we're done with a long mission.
245
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:13,760
We still had 42,000 pounds of fuel on the plane.
246
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,880
So we're really fast because we have extra weight.
247
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:22,240
We're coming in 135 knots, which is just a tad over 155 miles an hour.
248
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,840
And when things go wrong at that speed, it happens really fast.
249
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,240
And the next thing I know, I felt the swerve.
250
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,520
I'm like, OK, he's going to correct.
251
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:33,520
That didn't happen.
252
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,160
And we kept going off the runway.
253
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,480
And I'm just shocked.
254
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,480
And then everything changed.
255
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,280
Now, I'm in terror because I see us heading right at one of the fire trucks on the right
256
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,600
side of the runway.
257
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,720
We landed on runway 040 left, this parallel runway.
258
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:54,640
So there's asphalt between the two runways, but there's no fire trucks out there or no
259
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,000
roads.
260
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,240
So they only clean the taxiways and the runways.
261
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:00,720
And I say this for a reason.
262
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,920
There's going to be a lot of debris in the other areas.
263
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,360
They'll clean them from time to time, but it's still not like what they do every day
264
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,240
for the runway.
265
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,640
When we departed the runway, I started panicking.
266
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,640
I mean, I knew I was about to die.
267
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,400
There was no question.
268
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:22,280
I had death coming at me at 155 miles an hour, and there was nothing I could do about it.
269
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,400
And I remember I had a three-year-old son at the time.
270
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,360
And all I wanted to do was hold him one more time.
271
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,200
And I knew I was never going to see him again, my wife.
272
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,600
You won't believe how much goes through your mind when you know you only have a few seconds
273
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,600
left.
274
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,600
It's astonishing.
275
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,880
I cannot even put it in words, really.
276
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:49,720
And then as we got closer to the fire truck, the terror was so great.
277
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:56,120
The next thing I realized is I'm out of the airplane, probably 30, 40 feet above everything,
278
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,800
looking down on all of it.
279
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,600
The me inside the seat is terrified.
280
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:07,880
And I can see the guy on the water cannon on the top screaming as we're headed straight
281
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:08,880
at him.
282
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,480
He's looking at the propellers, probably, not at me.
283
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,360
But I can see his face.
284
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:24,080
The me outside could see everything and was absolutely perfectly calm, no concerns, just
285
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,720
observing, watching it happen.
286
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,720
It's like watching TV, sitting there watching TV.
287
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:37,400
But with extreme detail, way better than the best HD you've ever seen.
288
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,320
And this is back in 1982 before HD was invented.
289
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,960
And the number four propeller should have slammed into the truck.
290
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:54,360
The propeller is 13 feet in diameter from tip to tip, is spinning at 1,020 rounds a
291
00:14:54,360 --> 00:15:00,560
minute and weighs 2,200 pounds and moving forward at 155 miles an hour.
292
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,120
And two of the four blades gap the front left corner of that fire truck.
293
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:11,560
Then as we got past the fire truck, the copilot starts yelling, because the pilot's not doing
294
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,440
anything to correct the issue.
295
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:20,840
So the copilot, now we're on the asphalt between the two runways and at an angle heading toward
296
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,960
the other runway at over 130 knots.
297
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,880
And he's not doing anything to stop it.
298
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,040
And so the copilot yells out, get on the brakes.
299
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,040
Get on the brakes.
300
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,040
You better get on the brakes.
301
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,440
I mean, he yelled it loud the last time.
302
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,880
And that's kind of woke up the pilot.
303
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:51,480
And that's when he hit the brakes and slammed into reverse thrust properly this time.
304
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:57,040
When all of that's happening, I saw this Pepsi can from inside the plane whooshed by the
305
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,000
window from left to right, tipping over, throwing fluid out.
306
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,840
I could read the 12 ounces on the can.
307
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,960
I could see it.
308
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:06,960
Everything was slow motion.
309
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,520
Everything got super slow motion.
310
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:17,000
And then I started focusing on the atomized water fluid that was coming out, because it
311
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,360
was being hit by the thrust off the propeller blades.
312
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,520
And so it's atomizing these fluids.
313
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,240
And everywhere the atomization happened, I became those little droplets.
314
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:35,520
And then any piece of debris that was in the air, I'm wrapping and rolling around everything.
315
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,000
And I don't understand what's going on.
316
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,540
I don't know if I'm dead, I don't know if I'm having this crazy dream at night in bed.
317
00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:46,960
I don't understand anything at all.
318
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,980
And it kept doing that all the way till we went across the runway, I mean, the asphalt
319
00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:53,480
between the runways.
320
00:16:53,480 --> 00:17:01,960
And the runways have a slight slope on it to elevated to allow for rain to wash off.
321
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:07,720
So the nose gear in the right main mount bounced up on that runway.
322
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,560
On the other side of the runway, four right on the left side of four right.
323
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,080
And the left main mounts off of it.
324
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,360
So it's about a foot and a half, two feet lower.
325
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:23,240
And so we're kind of at an angle sitting there, stopped, engines are running.
326
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:29,380
And then all these different bio locations, I call them, or multiple locations of my consciousness
327
00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:33,800
or whatever you want, I don't know what it was, all pulled back into me just from outside
328
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,360
and just closed into me.
329
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,360
I don't even know how to say that.
330
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:45,040
But there was no sound or anything, but it just all did that.
331
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,800
And then I'm stunned.
332
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,800
I'm trying to figure out what just happened.
333
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,200
And I'm on an adrenaline rush.
334
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,720
And then I came off of it when I realized I was okay.
335
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,560
And I felt like I just ran five marathons back and back.
336
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,840
I mean, I was really healthy, physically fit 24 year old.
337
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,880
And I felt like I was, I mean, I was exhausted, man, wiped out.
338
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:12,320
And I looked to the right at Lieutenant Duffy in the right seat.
339
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,520
And he, I watched him slump when he came off his adrenaline rush.
340
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,360
I don't remember if I actually said something to him.
341
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,040
I was trying to say something to him.
342
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,760
I couldn't get it out.
343
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,960
I didn't know how to express what just happened.
344
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:33,640
And before I could, anything else happened, I heard this woo, woo sound.
345
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:34,640
And I didn't know what that was.
346
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,920
And then Duffy's looking at me, we're eye to eye.
347
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,840
Then he looks past me at Lieutenant Lovegroom.
348
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:47,320
And I turn around to look at him and he's still in a panic mode, white knuckling the
349
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:48,320
yoke.
350
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,360
He still hasn't let go of the yoke.
351
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,680
And he's just tight as he can be.
352
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,680
And he's going woo, woo with the stress in his face.
353
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:57,680
I can see it.
354
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,840
And he goes, what the f*** did I do wrong?
355
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,320
And I just, we kind of all just shook our heads and he calmed down.
356
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,240
And then the fire trucks all came up around us and we talking to the tower and stuff and
357
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,240
we realized the plane's okay.
358
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,760
And we ended up adding power and rolling out and getting on the other runway and finishing
359
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,080
the landing.
360
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:28,980
So I literally used, did one landing, emergency engine out landing on one runway and finished
361
00:19:28,980 --> 00:19:33,640
it on an entirely different runway, not a pleasant experience.
362
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,840
But I was very, I didn't know what to do about that.
363
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,440
I mean, it was very raw.
364
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,920
And so I just took care of the airplane, went back to the hangar and didn't want to talk
365
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:45,920
about it.
366
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,320
I didn't know what to do.
367
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,240
And so when I got to the hangar, I realized I'm on the flight schedule again for the next
368
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:54,240
day.
369
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,840
So do they do some kind of a debriefing after each of these missions where, or especially
370
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,280
with an emergency where you talk about what happened or write a report or?
371
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:10,560
Oh yeah, Portland is written up in a Natop's office, but I'm not, I wasn't part of that.
372
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,840
So you didn't really have anybody to talk to about this.
373
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:20,200
Did you, did you talk to any of the other men in the cockpit to see if they had a similar
374
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,200
experience?
375
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,200
Not after that.
376
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,880
It was just, I didn't know what to do.
377
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:27,880
You know, I needed help.
378
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,320
I didn't know where to go to get it.
379
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,920
How do you go ask for help with something like that?
380
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,840
And so without looking crazy, you know?
381
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:37,840
Yeah.
382
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,400
So when did you first, when did you first talk about it?
383
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,040
Well, I'm getting there.
384
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,200
Okay.
385
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,840
So that happened on a Monday.
386
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,800
And you were talking about, you know, did they talk to anybody?
387
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:54,320
They don't know that the next Tuesday, Tuesday, the Skipper, I find out I'm on the flight schedule.
388
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,320
Right?
389
00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,040
So they don't today, if anything like that happened, it put you through, you know, psychiatric
390
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,960
evaluation and all that before they ever let you back in the flight station.
391
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,600
But not back then.
392
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:12,200
Skipper, the commanding officer who was an instructor pilot took me and the pilot, my
393
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,200
crew pilot.
394
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,200
He was an experienced pilot.
395
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,200
He was a good pilot.
396
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,600
He just made a mistake one day, you know?
397
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,960
Took us both back out to go fly.
398
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,080
And I didn't think anything of it.
399
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,040
I was just like, okay, we're going flying.
400
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,200
So let's get right back on the horse, in other words, was the philosophy.
401
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,200
Exactly.
402
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,720
See if you can handle it or not.
403
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,640
And that's just how they did business back then.
404
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,420
So not knowing anything, I didn't know it was going to affect me.
405
00:21:41,420 --> 00:21:45,660
On the first approach, I'm now seeing the same runway.
406
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:47,200
We literally are landing on the same runway.
407
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,640
The wind was such that we ended up using the same exact runway.
408
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:57,320
I started the anxiety in me, post-traumatic stress is what it was, but I didn't understand
409
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,320
that at the time.
410
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,120
That wasn't even a term yet back then.
411
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:09,640
And so I'm just, I'm feeling that, but I don't want the skipper to know I'm not, I don't
412
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:10,800
have my head in the game.
413
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,480
So normally I would sit up in the seat and have a commanding 180 degree view of the flight
414
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:21,160
station and the approach, and then right before we land, my job in case it's needed would
415
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,720
be to push the power levers on a wave off if we had to go around for some reason, it
416
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,300
might be a dog on the runway, you never know.
417
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:32,740
And so I would then bend forward and do that.
418
00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:37,720
But I didn't want the skipper to see my face because I knew if he saw me, he'd know, he'd
419
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:38,720
know.
420
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,300
I just felt he'd know and I probably wouldn't get to fly anymore.
421
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:46,280
So I kept bent forward and had my hand on the power lever and that way I couldn't, I
422
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,680
didn't look outside, but it looked like I had my head in the game looking at all the
423
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,480
instruments in front of me.
424
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:58,360
And to about three or four landings, I had to go through that until I convinced myself
425
00:22:58,360 --> 00:22:59,360
in my head.
426
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,360
I'm like, Tony, you've been through, you know, you've got 3,500 hours flight time, done thousands
427
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,160
of landings, you need to get your head back in the game and knock it off or something
428
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,160
like that.
429
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,880
I just said, I just decided I wasn't going to do that anymore and feel like that.
430
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,960
I forced myself to sit up and watch the next approach.
431
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,920
And then after a couple of those, I was fine and I never had that problem again.
432
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,880
So thinking all of that stuff is over with in my life and I can move forward because
433
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,640
I just didn't want to deal with what happened.
434
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:28,880
I didn't understand it.
435
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,560
So I just like, okay, I'm military, we're really good at compartmentalization when the
436
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,560
time comes.
437
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,160
You just compartmentalize certain things.
438
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,280
Okay, I'll deal with that later.
439
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,520
I've got this to do now.
440
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,440
Or just push it out and say, I'm not going to deal with that because I don't understand
441
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,920
it and I don't know where to get help.
442
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,800
So leave it out there.
443
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,040
And that's just how you go about it in the military.
444
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,640
So you can go back to work, you know?
445
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,200
And so now this is on a Wednesday.
446
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,400
My wife and I had a son, he's about three years old, wife and I are watching a show,
447
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,000
he's already in bed, but we're watching a show called That's Incredible that used to
448
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,880
come on back in the 80s.
449
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,880
And they had this, and you can still find it on YouTube.
450
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:16,600
The story about a guy named, it was her name, I think his mother's name was May, I believe.
451
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:22,040
But his name was Leslie Limke, L-E-M-K-E, I think that spells his name.
452
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,960
And you can find his story on YouTube.
453
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,960
But it was the first time I'd ever seen it.
454
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,440
It was the first time it had been aired.
455
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:33,800
And so I'm watching it and May is telling about when she couldn't have any kids and
456
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,760
she had had a dream that I think she said Christ came to her and told her that she was
457
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,400
going to be offered three babies for adoption soon and that she was to take the baby boy
458
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,560
that was blind, born blind.
459
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,720
And that happened in a few months later or whatever.
460
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,040
And so she did what she was supposed to do.
461
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:59,440
And as he grew up, it became apparent he was severely mentally retarded and had to be taken
462
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,000
care of all of his life.
463
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,160
And she treated him like a baby most of his life.
464
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:10,240
And they brought him out and then she's telling a story where one night after he's an adult,
465
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,120
she's in bed upstairs and she hears music downstairs and she thinks somebody left the
466
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:18,320
TV or the radio on and she goes downstairs to turn it off.
467
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:26,600
But here's Leslie sitting at the piano, playing it perfectly and singing gospel music.
468
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,460
And I was just dumbfounded.
469
00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:31,840
And his voice was astonishingly beautiful.
470
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,240
I called it a hauntingly holy voice.
471
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,560
It just penetrated my heart and I was like, I knew I was seeing a miracle.
472
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,560
To me it wasn't.
473
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,280
So I'm thinking I'm seeing my first miracle.
474
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,280
And you know, I'm 24.
475
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,320
I didn't and I now understand that absolutely everything is a miracle, but I didn't know
476
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,160
that back then.
477
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,680
And so I'm just grateful for that.
478
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:58,860
And then that night I went to bed and I'm on my back just laying in the bed with my
479
00:25:58,860 --> 00:26:02,120
eyes shut, a little 10 second prayer in my head.
480
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,280
I didn't even say it out loud.
481
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:10,880
I just said out to just a genuine prayer, a prayer of just genuine gratitude from my
482
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,480
heart to God, telling God I was grateful for seeing my first miracle and thanking God for
483
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,480
that.
484
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,160
And then I added the words and Lord, it'd be nice if you'd do something like that for
485
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,160
me someday.
486
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,380
Not I mean, you don't really expect anything out of a little 10 second prayer in your head,
487
00:26:28,380 --> 00:26:31,640
you know, that's so vague.
488
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,200
Do something nice for me, right?
489
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,200
It's kind of a vague prayer.
490
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Yeah.
491
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,960
Or do a miracle for me.
492
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,960
About what?
493
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,120
Yeah, but it kicked the door open, whatever it was.
494
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:48,800
And I don't know how they're related, but somehow the what happened to me on that Monday
495
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:54,380
with the out of body experiences is related to this, which is a later decades later learned
496
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:58,600
is called a spiritually transformative experience, which is exactly the same as a near death
497
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,440
experience, you just don't have to die to have it.
498
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,400
And but I didn't know any of this back then.
499
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,640
So I went to sleep and probably like three, three 30 in the morning, we used to call it
500
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:15,600
no dark 30 in the military in the middle of the night, right?
501
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:22,120
All of a sudden, I had an instantaneous shift in my consciousness, the location of my consciousness,
502
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,880
and it was just boom.
503
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,000
I didn't go through a tunnel.
504
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,680
I didn't physically die and get injured or any of that.
505
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:37,400
But it was clear I was not in my bedroom anymore, at least not from my mind's perspective.
506
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:45,200
And the next thing I know, I'm looking at this absolutely beautiful liquid molten golden
507
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:53,960
white light, look gigantic lotus flower flames and unfolding over and over and over again,
508
00:27:53,960 --> 00:28:00,920
spraying light and unconditional love out in all directions, hitting me and filling me
509
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,520
up with it.
510
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,800
And I'm just dumbfounded, overwhelmed, can't even think.
511
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,520
And I remember saying three words, I said, Oh, my goodness.
512
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:19,000
In the instant I said the word goodness, infinite divine goodness blasted through me just rips
513
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,680
through every part of the essence of me.
514
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:28,080
And it was an infinite, unconditional love in first and then became the goodness.
515
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:35,600
And then it was just joy, bliss, ecstasy, infinite peace, excitement, God was thrilled
516
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,600
to see me.
517
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:46,720
It was like throwing a cosmic scale party, Tony's back, you know, it was it was awesome.
518
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,480
And beyond anything I even could comprehend, I didn't know love could be like that.
519
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,000
I had no idea this place existed.
520
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,880
Decades later, I learned that place has got a few names.
521
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,160
One of them is the throne room of creation.
522
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:08,920
The other is the great silent chamber. and I instantly understood that when I read that
523
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:19,800
and learned that phrase, because when I was there, there was absolutely no sound at all.
524
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:26,360
You know, a lot of people probably hear these podcasts like this, enjoy meditation.
525
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,220
And when we meditate, we like to think it's you know, we've got a perfectly quiet environment.
526
00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:34,660
Is it perfectly quiet?
527
00:29:34,660 --> 00:29:41,020
Or do you hear your own breathing or your own heartbeat or maybe a wall tick, something
528
00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:42,520
not there?
529
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,520
Absolutely.
530
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,480
It wasn't perfect silence.
531
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,000
I call it silence perspective.
532
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,520
It was being done on purpose.
533
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,400
And you could tell that it was the presence of God was doing that.
534
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,200
And there's no misunderstanding about that.
535
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:05,900
And then there was infinite wisdom and intelligence, the one and the same because you can't have
536
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:12,860
one without the other, and infinite unconditional love, all being expressed on a cosmic scale.
537
00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:16,520
And so all I wanted to do is go deeper into that light.
538
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,560
There's this magnetic pull that happens.
539
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,840
It's all you want.
540
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,720
There is nothing more important than that, in my opinion.
541
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,000
And it wasn't for me at the time, I had a wife and a three year old in the next room,
542
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,120
and I didn't even consider them.
543
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,760
It's not that that sounds bad or anything.
544
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,520
It's just you can't because your consciousness is overwhelmed with the moment.
545
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:47,560
And I had this moment where I saw these hands in the peripheral of my vision out in front
546
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,400
of me, probably about arm's length, but I didn't care about the hands.
547
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,240
I kept focusing on the light, that's all I was interested in.
548
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,640
Although I acknowledged that they were there and recognized that was there, I didn't care.
549
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:05,200
Shortly after that, from behind, the room came back into view.
550
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,040
The darkness, it was a black void with this light going out everywhere.
551
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,360
So anywhere from my vision came around, it started coming around to catch up with my
552
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,360
hands.
553
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,880
And then it was my own hands that were in the rooms holding up.
554
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,760
And then that's when I realized I'm sitting up in bed and I had my arms out to the light
555
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:30,400
that's at the end of the room and the wall and about a 10 foot circle is the lights in
556
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,400
my bedroom.
557
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,400
There's no wall.
558
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,400
God's in my bedroom.
559
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:41,760
And I'm sitting there crying and realizing also that I could see her feet, my wife's
560
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,000
feet were the way they were positioned, that her back was to me.
561
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,280
But I remember I was thinking, how can she sleep through this?
562
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,320
Because it literally was like a billion stars in the room.
563
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,500
It was unbelievably bright.
564
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:59,000
Nobody can sleep through that.
565
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,720
And I'm thinking these things.
566
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,720
And that's when I because God knew me, he knows I'm an engineer.
567
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,000
And if it hadn't happened this way, I think he would have written it off as a, I would
568
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,200
have written it off as a just an exotic dream and found some other way to push it out of
569
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:20,080
the way like I did on that Monday, you know, two days before I pushed that away because
570
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,080
I didn't want to deal with that either.
571
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,040
But I couldn't.
572
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:30,440
And that's when the the the circle started closing and not instantly but came down to
573
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,440
that two and a half to three seconds, something like that.
574
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,280
When it did that and it closed, you know, my heart broke because I just had the greatest
575
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,040
love I'll ever know.
576
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,000
I weren't away from me.
577
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,600
I wasn't told anything.
578
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:50,840
Oh, I wanted to cover one other part of the when I was in the in the great silent chamber
579
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:57,380
was how the how precious God made sure I knew I was to God.
580
00:32:57,380 --> 00:33:09,920
There was this essence of God's feelings for me as as as a child, a precious baby child.
581
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,840
And it felt like my best analogy that I've ever come up with this, I can't seem to make
582
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:24,320
it any better is it felt like the love felt like I was being imagine this is the end of
583
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,040
the life of the history of the entire universe.
584
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:33,520
And I was being loved, held and cradled by every mother in every galaxy, everywhere,
585
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,920
every win for the entire history of that universe all at once.
586
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,200
And even that analogy is totally inadequate.
587
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,000
And I could talk like a billion years nonstop and you still can't explain it because it's
588
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,720
incomprehensible to the human mind until you experience it.
589
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,960
We really just don't have the adjectives to explain that do we?
590
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,000
Tell me how you said this.
591
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,520
You felt all this love.
592
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,720
And then did you feel sorrow that it was gone?
593
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:05,980
What did you feel?
594
00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:09,040
I felt the separation, the separation.
595
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,540
And what did that feel like?
596
00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:13,480
It was just this ache in my heart.
597
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,400
I was just yeah.
598
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,120
And that's why you were crying.
599
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,400
Yeah.
600
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,440
So let me ask you something.
601
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680
So you said you felt this separation.
602
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,040
Yes.
603
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,680
And it was very emotional.
604
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:32,600
Do you personally believe that before we came here to this earth that we were in the presence
605
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,600
of God?
606
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,320
No, absolutely, because I knew I was home when I was there too.
607
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,320
That was the other thing I sensed.
608
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,800
Absolutely knew that for the first time I was home and for the first time I was truly
609
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,840
free.
610
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,400
This is not freedom here.
611
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,760
And not really.
612
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,860
I was free there.
613
00:34:51,860 --> 00:34:59,080
So my follow up to that is we in this life can't remember that experience before.
614
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,120
We can't remember unless we have an experience like you're just explaining.
615
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,400
Yeah, that's what it takes.
616
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,680
But it takes free will to what we put our minds on so we become.
617
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,240
We put our intentions on.
618
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:20,680
So the more we put our attention on our Creator, the more attributes of that Creator we can
619
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,120
draw into us with the light.
620
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,800
And I'm still having spiritual things happening to me.
621
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,480
But the point I'm trying to make here is that there have been times where I have thought
622
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,600
that would be so wonderful to be able to remember what that was like.
623
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,600
Yeah, I agree with that.
624
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,700
I use that all the time.
625
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:46,640
That home that we came from that we can't remember and that's frustrating that we can't
626
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,700
remember.
627
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:52,760
But you spoke of this separation and it seemed very emotional to you.
628
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,840
Wouldn't it be very difficult for us to be here if we did remember that because we remembered
629
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,640
what it was like and what we felt like and now we don't feel it?
630
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,160
Yeah, that's called human suffering.
631
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:11,480
Yeah, but the fact that we can't remember that seems like a gift that we've been given
632
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:18,720
because it would be too hard if we could remember.
633
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,040
I'm not sure if that would be true or not.
634
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:27,440
Now I know both and it's not the life is still I still have my challenges in daily life,
635
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:34,640
you know, but I also have the comfort of knowing where I'm going and who I am.
636
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:35,640
Yes, exactly.
637
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,840
There are other benefits to it as well.
638
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,120
And that's a big gift that you've been given that most people don't have.
639
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,720
What do you mean gift?
640
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:49,160
Knowing what you know because you had that experience.
641
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,800
Yeah, to a certain degree that was part of what I wanted to talk about.
642
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,860
So a lot of times, especially back when it first happened to me, people didn't really
643
00:36:58,860 --> 00:37:03,840
want to hear that or about my experience or whatever.
644
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:10,360
And what happened to me after my experience, my wife woke up and realized I've been crying.
645
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,360
I told her what happened.
646
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,400
And I think she believed me.
647
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:23,640
But later, we went to church the following Sunday, Baptist Church out in western Hawaii
648
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,040
where we were living out in that area.
649
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,720
And there was a guest pastor that week.
650
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,000
And so I went up to him afterward.
651
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,000
I needed answers.
652
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,000
You know, I'm an engineer.
653
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,240
So I've got to go find out what that was.
654
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:36,640
Well, and you're human.
655
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,800
So you need to talk about it also.
656
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,680
Primarily, I wanted to know what it was and what happened to me.
657
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,840
I just needed an answer on what happened to me.
658
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,280
How could that happen?
659
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,340
So we were at church.
660
00:37:50,340 --> 00:37:56,320
There's this time frame where they'll say, you know, are there any concerns out in the
661
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,320
church?
662
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,600
There's about 500 people there, a lot of them from military because we weren't that far
663
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,200
from the base.
664
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,720
And so several people raised their hand.
665
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,800
And I've got my hand up.
666
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:07,800
And then she called on me.
667
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,400
And as I'm starting to get up, my wife didn't want, she knew what I was going to do.
668
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,400
She just knew.
669
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,640
And she grasped me by my right hand around my wrist with both of her hands.
670
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,560
She's got both hands on me, pulling me back down.
671
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,600
And I literally, because I'm younger, a lot stronger than her.
672
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,200
I stood up and just yanked my arm away from her.
673
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,240
I said, I mean, the whole place saw this.
674
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:31,240
Let go of me.
675
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:33,960
You know, that turned to the pastor.
676
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,520
I just ignored her after that because I'm going to go get my answer.
677
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,720
That's kind of how I was back then, you know.
678
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:44,840
And I just kind of was demanding it, you know.
679
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,480
And I asked him, gave him enough information.
680
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:49,800
The whole church hears this.
681
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,600
You know, I experienced something.
682
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,600
I can't remember my words.
683
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,640
It was too long ago.
684
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,440
But I remember getting an answer back that totally was, didn't fit.
685
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,200
It was inadequate.
686
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,500
And I knew he didn't have an answer.
687
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:05,120
So I let it go.
688
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:11,240
And then went outside as we're leaving, there was this lieutenant commander from an aviator
689
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:15,360
from another squadron that was next to ours who knew I was an aviator.
690
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,320
And he came up to me and told me that, I told you about the first pastor.
691
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,600
He turned and walked away from me.
692
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:21,600
I think I told you that, right?
693
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,600
Did I tell you that part?
694
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,600
No.
695
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:24,600
The first church we went to.
696
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,080
Oh, we went to our first church that weekend.
697
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,520
And I asked the pastor after that.
698
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,280
That was at the end of that.
699
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,080
And I was crying, but I got it out.
700
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,040
And he just kind of tilted his head and looked at me and turned his back on me and walked
701
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,040
off.
702
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,040
And I was stunned.
703
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,040
Wow.
704
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,040
Got angry about it.
705
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,040
Yeah, that's too bad.
706
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,840
Later, we went to the other church.
707
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,040
And then my wife did that to me.
708
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,560
And then I'm outside the church leaving and this lieutenant commander from another squadron
709
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,680
comes up to me and says, you know, probably shouldn't be talking about that stuff anymore.
710
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,200
Because if you do, they're probably going to kick you out of the Navy and, you know,
711
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,920
cut your security clearance and keep you.
712
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,840
And I'm like, I love my job and I wasn't going to lose that.
713
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:08,840
So I clammed up.
714
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:09,840
That was it.
715
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,720
But that doesn't work either.
716
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:14,760
And it causes ultimately all kinds of other issues.
717
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:21,120
And it's not uncommon that people who have had experiences end up with divorces later
718
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,520
because it's just, it's difficult.
719
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,120
Once you've had a taste of perfection and you come back here, it's just not easy readapting
720
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,800
to this and then trying to understand your life anymore.
721
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,320
Everything I understood about what I thought was a foundation of my reality got wiped out
722
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,240
from under me in an instant.
723
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:47,040
And I, the place I went to, I experienced there was no, no time there, no space or time.
724
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,520
I don't even know how to explain that, but you can feel it.
725
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,680
You knew it when you're there.
726
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,760
Totally nothing like this place at all.
727
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,800
It's so interesting to me how each of these experiences are individual.
728
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:06,000
I just talked to someone earlier today who was talking about how their experience in
729
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,900
this heavenly spirit world had beautiful music and everything was vibrating and making this
730
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:14,560
beautiful music.
731
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:19,060
And you experienced this great silent chamber.
732
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:24,000
Why do you think they're different for everybody?
733
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,360
That's God's, that's a question for God.
734
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:31,720
You know, everybody's got their own path that's unique for them.
735
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,680
And everybody's got a way back home.
736
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,680
It's just, you have to go seek and look for it.
737
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,480
We have to have to seek, you know, if you seek, you shall find.
738
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,240
If you seek nothing, you find nothing.
739
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:51,640
And I found, my answers came to me, you know, years later, decades later from a lady who
740
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:59,080
found, I decided probably like over 20, almost 25 years later that I was going to serve God
741
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,560
and go tell my story.
742
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,080
However, that was going to happen.
743
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:03,520
I saw some videos online.
744
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,280
It was when YouTube started putting them out or something.
745
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,280
I can't remember.
746
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,180
But I found this group in Virginia Beach that was doing that and they had a, they were asking
747
00:42:12,180 --> 00:42:16,360
for anybody had a story, give us a call or whatever.
748
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:22,600
And so I got, that was the first place I ever spoke was down there.
749
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,960
And the university there has been studying this for a long time.
750
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,960
Yeah.
751
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:27,960
In Virginia?
752
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:28,960
Yes.
753
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:29,960
Yeah.
754
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:35,080
And I've met some of those people actually.
755
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:40,800
So I didn't know any of this was going to turn into this pathway that it did, you know,
756
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,960
just like I was just going to go tell my story because I thought people ought to know and
757
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,960
I wanted to make sure they did and I felt that's what God expected of me.
758
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:55,080
And it's all led to a whole lot of other interviews since then.
759
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaking of that, tell us about the Johns Hopkins research that you were a part of.
760
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:07,280
Oh, well that's, Lillia, I had spoken at an international association for near death studies
761
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,240
in Orlando many years ago.
762
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,360
I can't remember the year, Frank.
763
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,920
It was probably 10 or so years ago.
764
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:20,480
And this lady named Lillia had seen my video and somehow she figured out how to get in
765
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:31,600
touch with me with an email and starts telling me about the St. Germain foundation and I've
766
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,000
never heard of them.
767
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,000
So that's a different story.
768
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,860
But because of that relationship with the St. Germain foundation and that information
769
00:43:40,860 --> 00:43:48,080
that is my foundation now, that's what I bear on my answers in the St. Germain series, I
770
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,080
Am Discourses.
771
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,000
It's a series of 20 books that perfectly describe, that's where I found the words, the great
772
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:59,240
silent chamber, liquid molten gold and white living light.
773
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:03,680
And I'll tell you that story right now too, but I'll get back to that in a minute.
774
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,120
So remind me to tell you that story.
775
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:16,160
So Lillia contacts me and over a period of time because of her, I was asked to write
776
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:24,560
my story up in 2019 and it was submitted with however many other people's stories, I had
777
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:33,760
no idea, for a narrative inquiry and bioethics article at the Johns Hopkins University.
778
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:40,600
And the magazine doing it for them is called Voices, they do a quarterly narrative in bioethics
779
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:47,000
every quarter and they've been doing it for decades, 40, 50, 60 years, something like
780
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,380
that for Johns Hopkins.
781
00:44:49,380 --> 00:44:54,000
And so they said this is the most downloaded article they've ever had by far.
782
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,880
18 people's stories got selected.
783
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,480
We were asked to write a 300 word summary, which is really hard to do because they had
784
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,200
so many that they only have so much time to read them, right?
785
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,840
So they picked the 18 out of that and then we were told to write a 2000 word story because
786
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:15,260
there's a booklet, a hard copy print of it that they had a budget for, so they needed
787
00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:17,840
to keep the words down.
788
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,160
So I integrated two video links into mine because I didn't know how to write in just
789
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,280
2000 words everything that happened to me.
790
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:30,920
And anyway, the article came out in 2020 and it's called Healthcare After a Near Death
791
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:36,160
Experience and they're taking feedback from frontline providers all over the world that
792
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:42,160
choose to respond and taking that data when they get however much information they need,
793
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,480
I think they're still taking feedback and they are going to take that data and they're
794
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,900
telling all the frontline providers to read these people's stories, see where we failed
795
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:54,400
them when they came to us seeking help and give us your feedback and we'll take that
796
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,240
data and create a medical school curriculum and clinical protocols for near death experience
797
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:00,440
patients.
798
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,520
That's what's going on there.
799
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:10,320
And so back to the St. Germain Foundation stuff, so Lillie introduced me to that and that's
800
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:18,880
where I found the words that were fit perfectly for what I experienced when I was in the light.
801
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,160
And one day I was getting a massage from a massage therapist in 2018.
802
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:29,360
I was telling her about these books and she was seven months pregnant.
803
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:35,080
I'm on my back and looking up at her with my head off the table a little bit and she's
804
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:41,320
looking down at me and I'm telling her about these books, St. Germain books, where in one
805
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:46,240
sentence it described the light perfectly and explained it exactly like I experienced
806
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:51,640
it and I told her it called it the liquid molten golden white living light.
807
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:58,680
The instant I said the word light, divine peace and light and energy expanded and enfolded
808
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:03,520
my entire mind, body and soul and all I could do is drop my head on the table.
809
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,960
That's why it went on for many seconds.
810
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:11,080
And then when it was over, I wiped my eyes off and I looked up at Rosalynn and she was
811
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,040
wide-eyed looking down at me and hadn't moved at all and her face is all wet on both sides
812
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,480
of her cheeks all the way down.
813
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,040
And I said, did you feel that?
814
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,740
And she says, uh-huh.
815
00:47:21,740 --> 00:47:25,720
And Noah did too, her unborn baby boy in her stomach.
816
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:31,520
Later I found a passage in these books that I study from St. Germain.
817
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,840
I said, this is exactly what happened to us.
818
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:40,680
But I'm going to read the, and then later I couldn't find it because I have too many
819
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:41,680
pictures.
820
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,920
This is about a year and a half or two years later or something like that.
821
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,240
And I say this to her, I'm asking her to send it back to me.
822
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:51,840
I said, hi Rosalynn, do you remember that picture of a page of information?
823
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,760
I texted to you a long while back describing what happened to me, you and Noah, when the
824
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,660
infinite power of divine peace blasted through all three of us the last time I got a massage
825
00:47:59,660 --> 00:48:00,660
from you.
826
00:48:00,660 --> 00:48:04,000
I mean, I don't know how more specific you can get than that, right?
827
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,000
Yes.
828
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,000
Yeah, that's good.
829
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,000
I've somehow lost it in my phone.
830
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,480
I'm hoping you can send it to me again.
831
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,320
Please let me know, blah, blah, blah.
832
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,880
Hope you're doing well, my eternal friend in the light.
833
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,920
And then before she could say anything, I found it and sent it to her.
834
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,240
And she puts a little heart emoji by the picture.
835
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:24,000
And then sends two more messages.
836
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,560
The first one says, I love this.
837
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:26,960
And then a heart emoji.
838
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,480
The next one says, and it's so relevant for me now.
839
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,720
Then I write back and say, me too.
840
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,600
It's deep comfort knowing we are watched over.
841
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,000
And in the end, everything and everyone will be raised into that state of perfect peace
842
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,840
we each had blast through us three years ago.
843
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,120
That moment we experienced is seared into my consciousness forever.
844
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,200
Now, I'm pretty sure it did that to you too.
845
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,680
God bless you and your family, Rosalynn.
846
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,760
And she puts a heart emoji by that and then comes back and says, God bless to you and
847
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,000
your family as well, Tony.
848
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,360
I'm grateful to know you.
849
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,960
A little prayer hands and heart emoji.
850
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:04,960
And so that's, she's not saying, hey, you're crazy.
851
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,360
You need to, don't ever call me again, you know, whatever.
852
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,960
She's acknowledging that that happened to us.
853
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,280
It was real.
854
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,280
It was very real.
855
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:15,920
It was very real.
856
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:16,920
Not just me.
857
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,240
It's happening to people around me.
858
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:23,120
And so these things have happened after I started studying these books.
859
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:28,920
And at the books at the beginning, it says, if you practice these principles, these books
860
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,640
will prove themselves to you.
861
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,460
And they have.
862
00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:37,880
So after decades of seeking, I don't seek anymore.
863
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:44,260
I have my answers and I study them now and daily.
864
00:49:44,260 --> 00:49:45,260
Do that daily.
865
00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:46,960
Bring in, calling in the light.
866
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,240
The more I do that, the more and I meditate regularly.
867
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:55,840
I can feel the energy flowing through me, tingling and gently waving through me as it
868
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:00,800
passes from one end to the other, starting at the head and always going through me.
869
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:06,960
And it's helped me heal to the point where, you know, I can walk nine holes of golf and
870
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,840
hit a driver 270 yards.
871
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,960
So that's five years after a car wreck.
872
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,520
That I shouldn't be standing.
873
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,360
You know, that's great.
874
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,500
Just to wrap up, do you have any last thoughts to share with everybody?
875
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:25,560
What one thing can we get from all of this?
876
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,840
In the light, we are all one.
877
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,880
What we do to one, we do to everyone.
878
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,640
And when we do so, we do so most assuredly and most especially to our own selves.
879
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,240
So go below.
880
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:39,640
That's the only answer.
881
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,260
Well said.
882
00:50:41,260 --> 00:50:42,260
Thank you very much, Tony Woody.
883
00:50:42,260 --> 00:50:43,260
Thank you.
884
00:50:43,260 --> 00:50:44,260
Have a good day.
885
00:50:44,260 --> 00:50:46,000
Thanks for asking me to do this with you.
886
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:51,000
Appreciate it.
887
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:57,320
Thank you again for listening and just a gentle reminder about donating to the show at roundtripdeath.com.
888
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,800
Until then, Merry Christmas and I wish you everything good that you're looking for in
889
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:14,840
this life and the next.
