Transcript
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Hey everyone, just a quick warning about this episode of Round Trip Death.
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It includes graphic discussion about a suicide attempt that may be inappropriate for children
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and those sensitive to this topic.
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From the time that they pronounced me dead was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my hocks, my heart had stopped,
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and I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical
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body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace,
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there wasn't anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
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You have found the number one near-death experience podcast.
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So congratulations and welcome.
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And it's because of you.
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So thank you very much to our listeners.
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And a big welcome to our special guest today, Scott Bowman.
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Coming to us from the middle of the continent, St. Louis, Missouri.
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How are you today, Scott?
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I'm doing fantastic.
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Thanks so much for having me, Eric.
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Hey, do you mind letting our listeners get to know you a little bit?
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Tell us about you.
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Well, I'm about to be 50 years old.
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I'm a USMC Combat Veteran and a flooring installer here in St. Louis.
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You look 25, by the way.
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Oh, well, I thank you so much, Flattery.
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You'll get you everywhere.
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Sorry, go ahead.
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You're a flooring installer.
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Yeah, I'm a flooring installer for Evans Flooring here in St. Louis.
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It's a family-owned company that has been very powerful in my life and just giving me
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a sense of belonging.
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The trades are great, brother.
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People are getting downsized everywhere.
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We're busy.
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And it gives a man some connection to creationism within himself.
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And making the world a better place, one home at a time.
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It's kind of the way.
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Yeah, I used to say no one ever wants to be a floor guy, but you spend enough of your life
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rock bottom.
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You figure you might as well spruce up the place a bit.
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I like it.
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I like it.
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And working with your hands, that's a great thing.
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Does it feel good when you're done laying?
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I don't know if you do carpet or wood or what, but when you're done with a whole floor,
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just take a step back and go, I did that.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah, I specialize in exotic hardwoods and all higher-end residential homes.
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I do a lot of custom stairs as well.
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And people want it.
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There are lots of trades where it's something like, I have to get this or I have to get that.
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But for us at Evans, we get to sort of be dream makers.
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Or, oh, I always wanted an oak floor.
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I always wanted some Brazilian cherry in my home.
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Or I just always wanted to get this new, but they've been waiting their whole lives for
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their kids to grow up, no rollerblading on the house.
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And so being able to do that, as a combat veteran, you get people that want to thank
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you for your service a lot.
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We hate that.
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It was a job.
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It's a job that I was young and dumb and I needed something to straighten me up anyway.
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And you can only walk through so many opium fields and oil fields before you're like,
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maybe this isn't about freedom.
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But when a homeowner shows that appreciation and gratitude for me for changing their entire
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home, increasing the value, increasing the equity, I actually get to feel like a hero.
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I actually did something great for this person.
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That's awesome.
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And you get paid for it.
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And I get paid quite well actually.
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There's a 70% vacancy rate in the trade right now.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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This show is all about near-death experiences.
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We're going to talk about yours.
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I want a little background leading up to it because it tells part of the story.
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Would you mind telling me a little bit about what your life was like growing up?
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Yeah.
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That's the little bit part is the most difficult.
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I had a very, very challenging childhood.
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My biological father was murdered a week before I was born.
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My mother was just a teenager.
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This was in inner-city Chicago.
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My grandfather, whom she lived with, was a World War II veteran, had a bullet in his
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brain.
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And her brother was mentally disabled, extremely mentally challenged.
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She was born, breached with a billy-coat cord around his neck.
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So here she is, a little girl with a little boy all alone with no one to take care of her.
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And immediately I dealt with a lot of trauma that we don't even know the cause of it, whether
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it was my grandfather or my disabled uncle.
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But I was found with ruses, crying upstairs alone.
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A lot of neglected abuse happening before my mother even could finish college and started
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taking care of me herself.
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I spent my fifth to fast forward.
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I spent my fifth birthday in a hospital.
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I spent my fifth birthday in a Lakeshore mental institution in an abused children's unit.
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And years and years of my life, I was in and out of different institutions, juvenile homes,
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foster care, group homes.
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None of them were terrible.
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In fact, when you look at the experiences of children in today's foster group here with
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similar experiences, the level of abuse and trauma they have is almost worse than when
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they were in the home.
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But all of that really stopped for me when I was out of the home.
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I didn't have stepfathers beating me.
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I'd been hospitalized several times for child abuse that led to these consistent out-home
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placements.
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But honestly, God protected me through the vast majority of these facilities and homes
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where they were good homes and I just wasn't a good fit.
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I had a very high IQ.
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And one of these facilities, I was tested and found to have an IQ of 186.
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To put that in reference, Einstein's was 169.
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So my ability to create destruction and chaos around me was just very high.
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I could take all these things apart.
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I could escape.
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I had been running away my entire life just trying to be an adult and a child's body,
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understanding things of a spiritual nature.
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I mean, I read Homer's Iliad in the Odyssey when I was eight years old.
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And that led to a world of study of myth and religion and spirituality that just followed
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me to this day.
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But I never, ever felt home.
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I never had a good structure.
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I never had parents other than my relationship with God, which developed at a very, very early age.
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Sometimes I wonder if abused children have some connection with God broken open with them
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that just makes them closer, father to the fatherless, as we talked about.
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Talked about once before.
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And that can create a sort of bitterness.
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Well, if you're my dad, why are you such an absent father?
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Why are things so hard for me?
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Why can't I have a home?
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And just even places that I really loved.
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In fact, often the place where I was like, oh, I want to stay here.
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I want to be your little boy.
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Can I be this?
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For whatever reason, just wouldn't work out.
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And then eventually, being a six foot one, 200 pound man today, I developed into this
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larger child quite quickly.
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And you sort of, well, here's a child with behavioral issues, child abuse, child trauma,
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incredible high tolerances for pain.
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And we're going to take him into our home.
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It's not something you can expect a family with other small children that's working in
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foster care to want to take on.
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It's a heavy burden.
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Yeah, that really is.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I wound up, the best places for me were always like juvenile correction facilities
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or sort of academies.
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And some of those experiences were good, but there would always be this battle for freedom
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and control that would yield me in violent situations or escape situations.
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I'm just going to pack a bag, set up my timing, use my extreme intellect to know when I'm
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going to leave and escape.
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And once you escape a facility so many times, they don't want you back.
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They just send you to juvenile corrections and obviously you don't want to be here.
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So we'll find a different place for you.
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So this evening that we're going to talk about, I believe you had mentioned to me before
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you were in a parochial school.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, a fantastic one.
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The thing is I'm going to name drop them a bit, let me not trash talk Norris as a facility.
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A beautiful school campus, fantastic staff.
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The children are broken up into different pods or wings, each with a different name
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and a different focus.
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So they're trying to make sure that they don't put children that have been through extreme
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sexual abuse with extreme physical abuse or drug abuse.
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You know, where they tried to find the best place for you.
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The facility is in a very natural region in rural Wisconsin.
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There's a stocked lake there and game rooms and lots of great activities.
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And some of the things I learned from the staff, people there like Big Dan and Cuomo
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and some of the wonderful young ladies there have held me to this day and have been a part
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of creating healthy coping skills.
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But the problem with all of these facilities isn't the adults, it's the children.
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And when you take children out of these painful places that have some very dark coping skills,
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you can share these coping skills like, oh, that cutting and drug use and all of these
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things, oh, that works for you.
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And in bulimia and sort of eating disorders, you'll sort of absorb one another's disorders
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like a sponge because your children, you're young, you're malleable.
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Child on child abuse is one of the most common abuses on the country.
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And for our generation is Gen Xers.
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We're all latchkey kids.
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Parents weren't around as it was anyway.
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So we were all self-taught.
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We were all kind of on our own on the tracks, if you would.
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And that led to some very unhealthy and dangerous situations for sure.
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Now, initially to the evening in question, I had been a little younger when I first got
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to Norris and they put me in what was called the West Wing.
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It's an all-young children unit, regardless of your trauma and whatnot.
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If you were under a certain age, you went to West Wing.
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It's probably one of the highlights of my childhood actually because of the staff.
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They were all really sweet, good-natured and gentle.
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And there was a lot of structure, which I was craving, dearly, dearly craving it.
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And I had never been so well-behaved in my entire life, too well-behaved so that when
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I had had a birthday and I had reached a certain point, they had decided that they were going
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to send me to the group home.
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You know, they were like, this kid never does anything wrong.
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He's always helping the other kids.
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He's always doing well.
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His grades are great.
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Let's reward him by sending him to this group home called New Beginnings.
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It's right there on the same facilities.
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You get access, but you get to go to town, which is kind of fun.
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You can get on a bike and go to town and hang out with some of the local girls, which for
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a young adolescent boy is about the greatest thing ever.
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Unfortunately, this also introduces some substance issues.
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Like, you've got access to alcohol.
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These girls can steal from their parents' liquor cabinets, and they're hanging out with the
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bad kids from the group home for a reason.
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And there's fighting and whatnot.
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They're rowdy boys.
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We're not as washed as we were on the other facility.
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And eventually, several incidents had happened to the point where I didn't have an off switch,
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a really long fuse, but once it goes off, there's no off switch.
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Well, if this is the limit of how we can be, I'm going way past it.
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And so they wound up kicking me out of the group home and sending me to the druggy unit,
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if you will, just called New Day.
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And that was just a very dark place.
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And here I am, where I'd finally found a home, if you will.
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It was as much of a home as I had ever had at West Wing, to being moved again.
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I was good, and you took me out of my home.
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So it doesn't matter if I'm bad or good, I'm constantly punished either way.
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It really creates conflict in a child's mind.
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And now here I am in a place where I didn't have any substance abuse issues.
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In fact, I had never even thought of using substances until you sent me to that group
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home.
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Do you remember how old you were then?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that would have been 16.
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So here I am 16.
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At this point, I had been being shipped around the country across several different state
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lines from facility to facility, some of which were far more psychiatric facilities, where
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when you have an extremely high IQ and advanced psychologists and students of psychology are
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experimenting on you, you're learning things that the human mind doesn't need to know as
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far as manipulation and what your worth is.
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And it definitely creates a sort of dark attachments in a human being.
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I almost went into psychology.
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But that was the first thing I studied at Mizzou here when I went to college with my
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GI grant.
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And I was just like, man, I don't want to make a living turning normal personality quarks
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into dysfunction for profit.
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And I just wanted to figure myself out.
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00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,520
And the young interns and whatnot that are at the whim of these psychologists that control
242
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,600
some of these darker facilities, they don't care.
243
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,960
You're just data for them.
244
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:26,640
And so a lot of that culminated in this position where here I am in another one of these cold
245
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,360
sterile facilities where now I don't know anybody again.
246
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,560
Now I'm alone and I'm kind of an outsider and nobody wants me.
247
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:43,480
And at this point, I never really wanted to kill myself.
248
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,240
I was talking with this to the wife the other night.
249
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,440
Suicide wasn't the goal.
250
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,280
Or was it attention?
251
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,280
What I wanted was freedom and control.
252
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:55,280
I felt punished.
253
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,640
I felt punished by God.
254
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,440
I felt very angry with him.
255
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:07,120
The only thing I can write that's of any value to God is this life, this temple.
256
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,320
And that's the only way I can hurt him in a way he's allowed me to be hurt is to destroy
257
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:13,320
this thing.
258
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,840
And on this night, I set out to do just that.
259
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,400
And how did you do it?
260
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:26,000
Well, you learned a lot of ways in these facilities on how to harm yourself and to get attention
261
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,240
and whatnot.
262
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,720
And the one thing that I found was this sort of the most successful implement was your
263
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,320
toothpaste packet.
264
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:43,400
This is a small, maybe one inch by five inch aluminum foil packet coated in a plastic coating.
265
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,400
I'm sure you've seen that.
266
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,280
And they're often in camping and travel kits.
267
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:54,160
And if you strip off that plastic coating, the corners are razor, razor sharp.
268
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,520
And so before the evening, it's early in the day and everybody's kind of getting ready
269
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,560
to go to their groups and their meetings.
270
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,200
I sharpen both corners of one as clean as I could that were on the opposite from the
271
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,200
open end.
272
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,200
And then I hit it.
273
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,840
So this was a very premeditated event.
274
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:18,200
I am going to break loose of this mortal coil this evening.
275
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,280
So I stashed that.
276
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:28,200
And now at night after bed, when they do lights out, about every hour or so, a staff person
277
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,400
does a walk down the hall.
278
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,880
And these rooms are about eight by 10 rooms with a door in one corner and at the very
279
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,200
opposite end of corner of your bed.
280
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,200
Comfy enough.
281
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:47,000
And then a small window in the door that's of a height to where only an adult would be
282
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,480
able to peek through.
283
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,560
So that way the staff person that's on shift can peek in on the kids when they're sleeping
284
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,560
and make sure.
285
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:54,560
But I figure I got an hour.
286
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,200
I got an hour to make this thing happen.
287
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:04,600
So I wait until Andrew, who was a third shifter for that evening, comes past my room.
288
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,640
And literally the moment he passes by my door and checks.
289
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:18,200
I pull my cover down, exposing the radial artery in my left arm.
290
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,200
Right.
291
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,200
Inside your elbow.
292
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,200
Yeah.
293
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,000
The inside of the elbow, as you can see right there, scarred to there to this day.
294
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,120
And I began working my way through, sort of cutting a trough.
295
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:35,720
Now, you know, for a child that's been through extreme levels of child abuse, this little
296
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:41,280
stinging pain with each sort of, you know, little cut, because you got to work your way
297
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,280
down.
298
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:43,280
It's not a real razor blade.
299
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,280
It doesn't open it up at once.
300
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,760
It takes some time.
301
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:52,120
And you start as you start going through, you know, the different dermal layers, it
302
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,880
gets a little emotional.
303
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:54,880
You start sweating.
304
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,880
Your blood starts pumping through your veins.
305
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,800
Kind of have to take little breaks, you know, and you keep going on.
306
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:09,800
And the pain starts getting a little bit more intense as you get through the initial dermal
307
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:17,440
layers and you start kind of getting hung up, if you will, on the meteor tissue and tendon
308
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,760
tissue, the stuff that's in the way of that arterial sort of tissue.
309
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,800
The sound, the sound is awful.
310
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,040
It's kind of sickening, you know, but you just keep working.
311
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,040
And there's not a lot of blood at this point either.
312
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,760
It's just all really superficial stuff.
313
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,760
Now, mind you, I'm laying down and then doing this laying down in bed.
314
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,360
I've got my like, my knee up and my arm kind of stretched across.
315
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,360
I'm just working my way down as much as I can.
316
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:47,600
And it kind of opens up.
317
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,640
The wound opens up a little bit more, a little bit more, you know, until eventually you can
318
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,040
you can full seed the artery there.
319
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:02,880
In fact, it's almost until this point until I had exposed and opened up that arterial
320
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,480
cavity, if you will, and I can I can see in there.
321
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,200
It wasn't like I was attempting to kill myself.
322
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:18,040
I wasn't crying or saying why God, because it's so premeditated where I was like, if
323
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:24,000
this is the end result, if this is the course of my life, then this is the plan I'm taking.
324
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:31,840
It was more so like I was attempting to break out of a prison with a spoon, you know, like
325
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,880
I'm just scooping out this tunnel and I'm very focused and I want to be quiet.
326
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:45,520
I was more apprehensive and had more anxiety about getting caught by the staff person than
327
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:54,400
I was apprehensive about my mortality, about ending my life until this moment.
328
00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,360
Once the the the arteries exposed, and I can see it, you know, I can literally see the
329
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,320
artery pulsing in there.
330
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,320
My heart is beating.
331
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:09,040
You know, there's a ton of sweat on my brow, the sort of gravity of what I was about to
332
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,840
do really sets in.
333
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,360
And tears started to come.
334
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:17,760
I couldn't say I was crying, but I couldn't, I definitely the tears were just flowing down
335
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,920
my face or it's like, this is it.
336
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:26,600
And I set my eyes on the ceiling and I turned around the toothpaste packet to the unused
337
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,760
sharp side and I held it against that artery and I just really fast just ripped out.
338
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:38,560
And I could immediately feel this like just warmth just like began pulling down me and
339
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,880
I still hadn't looked at it.
340
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,360
And then I did it when I did him feel fear.
341
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:46,860
I felt relief.
342
00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:54,320
I felt like like a construction worker that is just put his last board in on a big flooring
343
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,320
project.
344
00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,880
And I laid my arm down flat along my side with the wound filling up.
345
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:07,720
I could smell this sort of metallic coppery smell in the air, hold the cover up over my
346
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,200
chest and close my eyes just relaxed.
347
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,200
And I had to think that I didn't pray.
348
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,960
All this time I spent talking to God, I felt like I had said everything I wanted to say
349
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,960
to God.
350
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:28,480
I just figured I was going to go to sleep for the last time.
351
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,120
I listened to my heartbeat normalize because I'm calming down.
352
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:40,280
And I listened to the hum of a facility whenever you're in one of these facilities, they all
353
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,880
sound kind of the same.
354
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,320
There's a hum of the fluorescent lights in the hall.
355
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,120
Some TV plays in the distance.
356
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,440
A phone rings.
357
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,440
It's just the same.
358
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,360
The same sound in a hospital.
359
00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:00,200
This sort of buzz because it's building as a live itself.
360
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,840
I just listened to that.
361
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,520
And eventually it was different than falling asleep.
362
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:12,360
I actually began to feel like I was sort of sinking, sinking into my covers, into the
363
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,360
bed.
364
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:14,360
Right.
365
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:18,680
I guess I kind of couldn't tell anymore where the bed began.
366
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,440
I ended and then down further and further.
367
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,560
And that continued for some time.
368
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,920
I couldn't even tell you how long that continued.
369
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,920
But eventually something changed.
370
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,120
I felt like I was being sucked down.
371
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,400
Like I was being pulled out.
372
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,600
And even this was just a very interesting experience.
373
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,240
This is until a sort of pulling.
374
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:52,880
I can't say it was hands or claws or anything, but it was a thing or many things that began
375
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,400
pulling me down.
376
00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:01,720
And that is when this laughter began, a sort of slow motion laughter.
377
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:09,360
Like if a laugh track was playing on a TV and you put it on like one tenth speed, except
378
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:15,920
every crescendo of the laugh impacted me.
379
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:21,760
Like I could feel it in the sort of fiber of my being and myself.
380
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,360
Something I heard in my ears.
381
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,480
It was something I felt.
382
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:35,920
And I became overwhelmed with a powerful sense of dread that I had made a tragic mistake,
383
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,440
a permanent tragic mistake.
384
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:46,240
But yet even then, as I was writing about this in my journal the other night, I just
385
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,240
kind of accepted it.
386
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:54,760
I didn't beg for God's forgiveness or for anyone or anything to come save me.
387
00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:02,160
I just kind of accepted that this was the choice I made and what was suffering if it
388
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,280
was eternal anyway.
389
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,840
This would just be it forever, except that it wasn't.
390
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,920
And I don't know when it stopped or where it stopped.
391
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:20,320
All I remember is the coming awake in a very fuzzy hospital room.
392
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:27,440
That I can remember the hospital room, but I can't remember anyone that was present there.
393
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,320
I can't remember anyone coming and talking to me.
394
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,920
I don't remember when my arm was bandaged.
395
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:40,720
And I also don't remember leaving the hospital and being back at Norris.
396
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:47,560
My next memory, in fact, is sitting in a chair in front of one of these little tables that
397
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:53,520
they have in every hospital next to a window on a beautiful sunny day.
398
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,840
I had 72 hours locked down where I wasn't allowed to leave the unit and I was on intense
399
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,960
observation.
400
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,000
And different doctors and staff people would come and talk to me regularly.
401
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:14,760
And I remember this woman coming and telling me how Andrew, that staff person, it wasn't
402
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:21,520
even time for him to do the walkthrough yet, but he had seen this weird dark substance
403
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,760
like near the door in the hallway.
404
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:30,960
And had came to investigate and the blood, you know, about 10 feet, because it's an 8
405
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:39,880
by 10 room, had poured all the way and because of the slope of the room, had poured all the
406
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,400
way under the door and my arm was hanging off the bed.
407
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:48,720
So I guess at some point it had slipped out from the covers and it had been able to wick
408
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,680
its way down my arm and down the room.
409
00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:00,920
And Andrew had screamed for help and rushed in and with his fingers had pinched that arm
410
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:08,000
artery to stop the bleeding from anymore and had held it the entire way to the hospital,
411
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,040
which was white some ways away, right?
412
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,400
Like this is a rural facility.
413
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,560
So it was several hours.
414
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,040
I guess he had had nerve damage in his hand from holding it for that long because he'd
415
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,320
cut off the circulation to his fingers in order to save my life.
416
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,880
This man saved my life, I never got to thank him, I never even saw him again.
417
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,000
He was a third shifter and most of the third shifters were students, you know?
418
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,840
So who knows what path his life took after this incident.
419
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:49,680
As for me, I did not stop self-harm.
420
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:57,120
It only happened again when I was really, really trapped and it definitely happened
421
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,760
in a much more superficial way.
422
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:08,520
That laughter, sound, the very fiber of my soul stuck with me throughout my entire life.
423
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:15,360
One would think that it would have a more pivotal effect, but for whatever reason, when
424
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:23,000
I have absolutely everything I want in my life, I forget that sound and what it means
425
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,360
is waiting for you.
426
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:33,440
And I take glory away from God and I forget all the blessings and protection that's been
427
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,040
there in my life.
428
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,160
That's kind of ancient history for me now.
429
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,840
Let's take a breath.
430
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:42,840
Yeah.
431
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:43,840
I know I need one.
432
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,680
I don't know about you, but man, that is rough.
433
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:55,240
On this show, we hear from so many people have these beautiful near-death experiences
434
00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,840
that are lifted up at opposite of you, up out of their body.
435
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,440
They can see down on it.
436
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:09,320
Some people go through this tunnel to the light and see rainbows and, you know, I'm
437
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:16,560
almost said unicorns, nobody sees unicorns, but the idea of this wonderful, beautiful,
438
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,680
loving experience.
439
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,360
And yours was not that way.
440
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,600
Let me just make sure I've got all of this.
441
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,160
It really consisted of a couple of things.
442
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,720
One feeling like you were pulled down.
443
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,960
Well, initially, it was just a sinking.
444
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,200
It was just like I was floating down, if you will.
445
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:43,960
Anyway, it's down, sinking, and then something pulling you down.
446
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:44,960
Yeah.
447
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,000
There was like a three, sorry to interrupt, there was like a three-stage process, right?
448
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,360
Just an initial sinking, like losing buoyancy in the water.
449
00:29:54,360 --> 00:30:03,960
And then a sort of gravitational pull where I'm accelerating in my sinking, and then a
450
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,840
sort of things grabbing out.
451
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:07,840
I wouldn't say hands.
452
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:15,200
I don't, at least I don't recall any fingers, but I definitely felt a thing grab onto me,
453
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,240
like a hand with mittens, if you will.
454
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:25,640
It's hard to describe, but like something with intelligence grabbing me, and I had gone
455
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:31,320
within its grasp, where it was almost telekinetically pulling me down.
456
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,840
And then when I got to a certain point, and there were many of them that were grabbing
457
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,160
me and pulling me down.
458
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:44,960
And it was that moment, like I felt panic then, but the terror, the dread, then started
459
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:45,960
to laugh.
460
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,360
What was the laugh like?
461
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:48,360
It was like it was mocking.
462
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,000
It was a very mocking laughter.
463
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,000
That's so terrifying.
464
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Oh, yeah.
465
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,960
It gives me the chipper's out.
466
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,520
I've got hair standing up right now.
467
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,520
Do you think you were out of body at that point?
468
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:08,200
Or was this just more of a, I don't know, a dream that happened while you were dying
469
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,680
and you were unconscious?
470
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,960
Or what do you think was going on?
471
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,880
Yeah, I thought about that.
472
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,640
Was the laughter of TV playing in the distance?
473
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,440
And because I'm going, I'm losing blood flow to the brain.
474
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,800
I've thought about that.
475
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,400
It's possible.
476
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,400
It's possible.
477
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,240
But I don't know.
478
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:36,200
Because there's been one other incident in my life where I felt like God spoke to me
479
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:42,440
or some other being spoke to me and he yelled at me to get up.
480
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,280
And I told you about this, the other thing.
481
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,960
And I definitely believe in otherworldly voices, right?
482
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,600
And that sound, and it's not something you hear with your body.
483
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,280
I want to make sure I'm clear.
484
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,480
You didn't feel like this was God mocking you, did you?
485
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:58,480
Oh, no.
486
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,880
No, definitely the other guy.
487
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:01,880
Definitely the other guy.
488
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:02,880
The other guy.
489
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:03,880
That's a good name for him.
490
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Yeah.
491
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:05,880
Definitely the other guy.
492
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,560
Or some minion of his or of who what it was.
493
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:16,880
I felt like putting a child in this sort of position, right?
494
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:17,880
It's not on accident.
495
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:23,720
I've always felt like you make the agreement before you come here.
496
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:30,160
You sign a sole contract towards the sort of blessings you're going to get and the sort
497
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,560
of challenges that come with them.
498
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,320
Maybe I wanted hyperintelligence, right?
499
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:41,240
Let me have a bring up some two, two brilliant minds here that are great example of super
500
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,240
intelligence.
501
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,080
Einstein and Tesla.
502
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:50,280
One time, Einstein was asked what it was like to be the most intelligent man alive.
503
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,720
And he said, I don't know, asked Nikolai Tesla.
504
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,560
Einstein died, loved, family, in a nice home.
505
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,960
And he was probably just a patent thief, to be honest with you.
506
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:09,640
Tesla was a truly, truly brilliant man who's still affecting all of our lives today.
507
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:17,960
And he died alone, penniless, miserable, destitute in a hotel room.
508
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,920
He'd shortly had everything he'd ever worked on taken away from him and split up by powerful
509
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,400
cover.
510
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,600
What is intelligence?
511
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:33,840
What are the consequences of overthinking everything in life and allowing your mind?
512
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,480
Great tool, horrible master, to kind of take over your life.
513
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:45,400
Even now, where I truly, truly do have a love for Jesus.
514
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,120
I truly have a love for God.
515
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,320
I feel his inner workings in my life.
516
00:33:51,320 --> 00:34:00,160
I'm often brought to a point of discomfort when I'm comfortable because I have to overthink
517
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,160
sort of everything.
518
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,040
How does this look to God?
519
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,400
How am I doing right now?
520
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:11,360
It's a very challenging place to be, especially as a child when you don't have the capacity
521
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,000
to just surrender.
522
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,680
You're always helpless.
523
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:22,480
So tell me how that experience back then with the other guy led to your belief in God now?
524
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,480
I don't know that I have a good answer for that.
525
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,920
Okay, let me ask something else then.
526
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,200
Did your life immediately change after this?
527
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,080
No, it's always bothered me.
528
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,320
You know, especially when you do hear about other people's stories and they have this
529
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,760
like powerful turnover.
530
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,960
I would say if anything, it made me a better father.
531
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,440
The reason being is because I know that negative reinforcement just doesn't work.
532
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,640
It's just very unsuccessful.
533
00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:00,680
Look at all the people that have these experiences and they come into the beauty and grace and
534
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,600
glory of God and they turn their lives around.
535
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:10,120
It has powerful, powerful changes in them.
536
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,800
There I went, the worst possible outcome and eternal of suffering.
537
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:23,280
I was right there at the door and I still lived a very, very difficult childhood after
538
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:24,280
that.
539
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,280
In fact, you know, continue.
540
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,520
I attempted to escape from Norris multiple times.
541
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,240
I mean, I did escape from Norris multiple times after that.
542
00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:35,040
I got into trouble.
543
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:40,240
I chased girls like no tomorrow and drugs.
544
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,920
I went really deep into the narcotics world.
545
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:51,080
You know, I only enlisted because I was facing an incident where I had 15 charges and nine
546
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,760
of those were police endangerment felonies.
547
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,920
I had to go to a boot camp, complete that boot camp successfully and then be accepted
548
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,680
and the only ones that would take me were the Marines, Ura.
549
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:11,000
You know, and even that experience and, you know, I had near death experiences with retours
550
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,680
under my belt too, but they weren't like this.
551
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:14,680
I didn't go anywhere.
552
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:21,680
I just got pushed me out of the way of getting blown up, you know, like, oh crap, that just
553
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,680
missed me.
554
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:29,440
And even then you think, oh man, if I died, I would have gone back to that place maybe.
555
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,560
It just, if anything.
556
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,880
I do have an answer for your first question.
557
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,880
All right, go for it.
558
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,400
If anything, it made me feel invincible.
559
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,920
Well, I went to Devil's door and came right back.
560
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,480
That probably wasn't a good thing at that age.
561
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,480
Definitely not.
562
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,560
I don't think it's ever been a good thing.
563
00:36:51,560 --> 00:37:00,200
In fact, it's only the loss of a love, only the loss of a woman's love and disappointing
564
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:06,920
a woman's love has ever really initiated substantial change in growth in me for whatever reason.
565
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:13,800
You know, all of my biggest growth and development in my life that made me a good human being
566
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,160
were because of meeting some woman I was unworthy of.
567
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,640
By the way, I just want to interject something here.
568
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:28,280
I want to make sure that we don't ever cross a line on glorifying suicide in any way, shape,
569
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:29,400
or form.
570
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:37,160
What do you have to say for anyone who may be contemplating taking their own life?
571
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,200
You know, it's never about that.
572
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,600
I don't think anybody wants to die, brother.
573
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,760
We all want to live.
574
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,120
We all want freedom.
575
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:56,680
We all want control of our own destinies.
576
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:06,320
Especially if you're young and you're trapped in that place, the best tool for that is surrender,
577
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:14,800
to understand that there is a higher path out there and to breathe deep and to find
578
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,440
a path to stoicism.
579
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,100
You are not your emotions.
580
00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:24,440
You are not the situation.
581
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,760
You're not even here in this body.
582
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,800
That is probably the greatest lesson that freed me from self-harm.
583
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,880
I'm not this man.
584
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,520
I'm not Scott Bowman.
585
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,800
That's just a name.
586
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,120
I'm not this body.
587
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:45,600
Something else outside of it bearing witness to this all unfolding.
588
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:53,540
And cutting that story short is robbing you of what might be the most epic and incredible
589
00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:55,760
journey ever.
590
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:03,400
Because some of the darkest, most painful, worst things that have ever happened to me
591
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:10,880
led to the most beautiful, wonderful experiences.
592
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,640
My ability to be a parent and to love a child and to be infinitely patient with one, and
593
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,600
they're grown now, came from my own suffering.
594
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,560
I remember when one of my boys was stuffing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich into a VCR.
595
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,200
And in his defense, it did look like a face with the dials and whatnot.
596
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,920
And his mother was really agitated about it.
597
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,440
And I was just like, I can go to Walmart and buy a new VCR.
598
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,800
It's not worth raising my voice at this little boy.
599
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:52,520
And getting to witness the creation, to be a part of summoning a new soul into this world
600
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:58,920
and be ashamed to miss that just because somebody took your childhood away.
601
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,120
That's awesome.
602
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:07,000
And if you need to talk to somebody anywhere in the US, you can call 988-SUICIDEHOTLINE.
603
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,000
There's somebody there.
604
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,000
Yeah.
605
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,000
Yeah.
606
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,000
They're surprisingly helpful.
607
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,720
And if you're a fellow combat veteran, we have a special one.
608
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:17,400
We have a number of their own.
609
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,200
There's a veteran's hotline out there.
610
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,720
And it's fellow veterans.
611
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:23,600
And so they get it a little better.
612
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:29,560
I've definitely been talked down from some situations by some of those fantastic people
613
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:35,080
that are sacrificing a big part of themselves to help others.
614
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,640
All right.
615
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,360
We don't have a lot of time left.
616
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,160
Let's find a silver lining in this whole thing.
617
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,120
You know, I love my life.
618
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,480
I love my relationship with God.
619
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:57,000
It was difficult as a child to understand how free will of all things good and evil
620
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,520
are required for the beauty of creation.
621
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:05,520
And as an older and wiser man, I can see that.
622
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:13,320
You know, if what I wanted, if what led to my struggle was a desire for freedom and control,
623
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:20,360
I have to accept that that needs to exist in all things and that all things want that.
624
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:27,000
And learning that lesson and that there was, there was God's love out there.
625
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,840
That was the best silver lining I have.
626
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:40,000
That in surrender, you don't need to control yourself because there is a greater being
627
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:46,400
of infinite love out there, just waiting for you to embrace it.
628
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:54,960
I don't have any powerful esoteric wisdom that can be attributed to this experience,
629
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,800
but there is a lot of love and joy in my life.
630
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:04,680
My ability to work through pain and struggle has allowed me to climb to the top of my industry,
631
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,160
the top of my company, and it's been very fulfilling.
632
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,280
You know, everything I've suffered from has given me some sort of strength and insight
633
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:22,760
that has made me loved by all the people around me, the fantastic friends I have, and the fantastic
634
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,600
woman that loves me despite how difficult I am.
635
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,200
So it's a beautiful world out there.
636
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,320
I'm glad God saw fit to send me out through the rest of it.
637
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,320
All right.
638
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,360
Thanks a ton.
639
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,960
Your experience is so different than most people that I talk to on this show that I'm
640
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,480
going to ask you the question that I ask a lot of other people, and I don't know what
641
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,000
your response is going to be.
642
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,240
Usually, I know what everybody else's response is, and that is that I ask them, how much
643
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,560
fear do you have of death?
644
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,560
None.
645
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,560
Why is that?
646
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,600
Jesus, brother.
647
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:08,320
You know, if the other guy is real, you know, I don't believe in God.
648
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,840
I don't believe in the Messiah.
649
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:18,680
I believe whether or not my daughter brushed her teeth like she said she does.
650
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:28,320
I have conviction in a creator and a divine source in the Son of Destruction and the Messiah.
651
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,600
Conviction.
652
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:38,280
I see it in how it works in my life and every little thing I do and how God uses me in my
653
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,680
life and His plans to reach other people on the daily.
654
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:49,640
With every minute that ticks on the clock, with every age I open in a book, with every
655
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:58,240
interaction I have, even with meeting you, Eric, I see God's plan unfolding.
656
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:02,200
The ancient Egyptians don't even have a word for death.
657
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,320
The term is Westing.
658
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,960
And so I don't see that as a thing.
659
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:14,240
None of my behaviors are going to, sort of, attempting to take my own life.
660
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:22,480
I think are capable of sending me there because I've accepted this relationship with a father,
661
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:31,720
a friend, and a king that loves me, despite how awful I've been, you know, including with
662
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:33,800
how awful I've been.
663
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:41,800
And so I look forward to my next homecoming, but not because of my will, because it has.
664
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,880
It's not as good as I can do, brother.
665
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,760
Well I appreciate it, Scott.
666
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,800
And I appreciate you being so vulnerable.
667
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,320
This can't be easy to talk about.
668
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,040
It was brutal and awesome at the same time, Eric.
669
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,400
It was brutal and awesome.
670
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,200
We got to heal these things, you know?
671
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,000
We've been talking about a lot of opposites today, so that just fits perfectly.
672
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Awesome.
673
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,000
Thank you for the experience.
674
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,000
I really appreciate you, brother.
675
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,960
You've definitely got a fan for life.
676
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,600
I'll be listening, brother.
677
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,560
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
678
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,600
If you've had a roundtrip death experience, we would love to hear from you.
679
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,000
Send an email to eric at roundtripdeath.com.
680
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,880
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
