Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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On back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
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And a big welcome to Ash Perot from Down Under.
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How are you, Ash?
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Very well, thank you, Eric.
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It's a, yeah, I know it's me.
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We're going to hear a very unusual death type of experience today, as well as an NDE.
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But before we jump right into it, which I'm in the mood to do today, but I want people
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to get to know you just a little bit.
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So tell us a little bit about Ash.
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Thanks, Eric.
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Well, I think probably something that most people will talk about is who they are as
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an identity.
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And for me, yes, I have these human identities where I'm a coach and a parent and a father
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though, and a person who loves adventure, but underneath that, for me, it's like, there's
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this consciousness that I am.
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When we go into the NDE, I can describe that more, but it was an experience of I am consciousness
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and I am myself regardless of whatever role I'm playing, that there's this unique thing
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in me, which is Ash.
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And so you have this unique part of you that is Eric, and that Eric exists always in all
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places, regardless of living or dead.
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And so there's this essence that is Ash, when I'm connected to my heart, and I'm very aware
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of that, and I'm able to take that into different roles.
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So there's many roles that I do, but fundamentally there's this ethereal, intangible thing that
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is me, and it's unique, and it's actually a form of consciousness.
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So for some people, we're nowhere on a NDE experience podcast, but for some people it's
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a bit woo and it's difficult to understand, but wherever we go, we are.
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And so for me, yes, I can have all these different ways of being in the world, but in that is
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this form of consciousness, and it's a very unique form of consciousness that is me.
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I like that.
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I think for us to get to know you a little bit better, since we can't look inside at
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that right now, tell us a couple of these roles that you're talking about that'll help
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us go, oh, okay, now I can relate to this guy.
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Yes, I like that, Eric.
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So one of the roles is a coach, so people come to me when they want to connect with
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their heart and make transformations in their life when they feel like they've been stuck
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on things.
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I'm a parent, so I have two children, and that's just one of the greatest gifts in my
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life.
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A wife, I live in Sydney, Australia.
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I love music.
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I was a musician for a long time.
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I love adventures.
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I love experiencing the world, the way that the world is.
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And so, for example, I'm always adventuring somewhere.
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It's always, okay, there's part of me that feels most alive when I adventure.
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How's that for a description?
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Oh, I like it, but now I'm curious what kind of adventures you do.
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Well, I love nature.
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I was a surfer for 25 years, surfing almost every day until I had a back injury.
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So I love mountains and swimming in cold streams and waterfalls and swimming out into the ocean
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when it's huge.
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Love snorkeling, but very much an ocean baby.
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And then because of the back injury, that led to exploring the mountains.
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Before that, I was always on the coast.
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And then with the back injury, not being able to surf, I started exploring mountains.
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Well, if you want to try some mountain snow sports, come on up here.
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We'll give you a big dose of them on our big mountains here.
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Anyway, I've never been to Sydney.
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I can't wait to visit it sometime.
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But let's jump into what we're here for today because I don't want to make our listeners
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too impatient.
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So take us back to 2016, not very many years ago.
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What was going on in your life that led up to the surgery that you had?
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So if we go back even further around 2013, 2014, and I mentioned I was a surfer and life
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was very difficult for me.
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I had post-traumatic stress, which was from 2005 and having a stillborn daughter.
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And there was something just in my psyche that flipped the switch then.
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And there was a point holding her.
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And I had this thought, I'm never going to let anything bad happen to my family ever
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again.
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And what happened was over time, I just became hyper alert.
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And I moved into this alternative reality where I was trying to prevent the possibility
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of anything bad happening.
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And the way that I was doing that was, well, if I generate high amounts of wealth by a
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big house with a big yard and we can see far and there's no one near us, I can protect
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my family.
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And it wasn't a rational, conscious thing at the time.
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But what happened was over time, I got really run down.
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And I was only sleeping maybe two or three hours a night.
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And this was for a long period of time.
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So eventually I crashed as in I end up in a mental health clinic.
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And then coming out of that experience, I can't trust my mind.
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My mind was messing with me.
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I believed everything my mind was telling me.
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I think therefore I am.
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And so I got sold the lie that I should believe all my thoughts.
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What happened was I was extremely exhausted and I was still working to provide for my
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family.
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I was on holiday and I went surfing and I went down to look at the ocean.
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And it was a very big day.
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There was no one else surfing.
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And my back had been getting sore throughout the holiday.
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And it was towards the end of the holidays.
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I didn't want to go back to work.
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And I was looking at the surf and I heard this voice in my head that said, if you go
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surfing today, you're going to hurt your back.
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And I didn't want to go back to work.
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And I said to the universe, which I have a better understanding of it these days, but
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I said, bring it on.
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And so I started paddling and the second wave I went to dive through, I popped two disks
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in my back.
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And so it was a very big day of surfing.
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And I was the only person out there and I could only move my right arm.
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And so my left arm, I was holding onto the board and I was trying to paddle back in.
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It was a bit scary.
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And then when I got back into the shore, I was standing on the edge of the water holding
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my board, but I couldn't walk.
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And so I was just stuck there.
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And some people came down to help me.
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That led to having a back operation.
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Okay.
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When you talk about this big surf, how big were these waves?
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I want to really picture it.
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That's why I asked.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, if I was on a wave, it would be at least three times the height.
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So it's not huge.
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It's not, you know, what they surf these days where it's 25 times somebody's high.
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But a wave face of 18 feet, something like that.
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Yeah, it's a big wave.
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Did you get pounded on your way in?
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I got knocked around a lot, shall we say.
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I wasn't close to drowning or anything like that.
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I'd been close to drowning a few times before and it wasn't at that level.
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All right.
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So well, thank goodness there were people here or there to give you a hand, help you out
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of the water.
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All right.
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Was it straight to the hospital?
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Initially, I just, we were camping at the time and went back and just thought, it'll
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get better.
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And then the next day I went to hospital.
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I tried to get some treatment, just natural treatment and that didn't work.
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And, you know, went to hospital and they diagnosed that I'd had two slipped discs, which was
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impacting the nerves.
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And they said they wanted to do surgery.
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Not initially.
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So I spent two years trying to heal it naturally.
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And so doing yoga, Pilates, acupuncture, lots of different therapies.
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And it just got to the point that I couldn't operate.
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I was still working.
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I was taking medications.
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So I was on opioids that I'd been on opioids for about six months, which of course, you
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know, you just don't want to be on those.
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And there was one day I just couldn't do my shoelaces.
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And I thought, okay, I just have to surrender and go in for the operation.
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Now, people don't die from back operations.
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So and I have a preview of what's going to happen.
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Go ahead and go through it.
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Well, let's tell our listeners what happened.
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Yeah.
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So I went in for the back surgery and during the surgery, they tore a vein.
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They didn't know.
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And they stitched me up and sent me back to the ward.
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And it was, it was a, it was a, from my perspective, it was a fair mistake to make because the
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vein actually tore in my groin, not where they were doing the surgery.
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And that was because the vein stretched and they're a bit like, a bit like tissue paper.
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They're very fragile.
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And so the tension down in the joint, in the groin caused the tear.
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That night on the ward, I was in a lot of pain and I called the nurses several times
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and they said, oh, you're okay.
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Just press the fentanyl button.
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And you know, the button, you know, it'll be reset in 10 minutes.
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You can press it again.
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And then in the morning, the physio came in to get me up for rehab because with that kind
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of operation, they start rehab the next day because the body goes, oh, okay, there's this
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expectation that I can move.
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Let's respond to what that is.
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And I sat on the edge of the bed and I looked down at my leg and it was at least twice the
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size it normally was.
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And I said to the physio who was very young, I said, my legs not normally like this.
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And he said to me, you'll be okay.
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Just stand up.
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And then as I stood up, I felt very faint and then I collapsed back on the bed.
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I was unable to move.
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He pressed the red emergency button and from there, the emergency team came in very, very,
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very quickly.
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Was this what we call a code blue?
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Yes.
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In other words, your heart stopped?
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Yes.
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So they started putting oxygen on my face, attaching, I'm not sure what they're called,
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but then started attaching the sensors on my chest.
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EKG things, I think that's what they're called.
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I'm not a doctor.
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No, we do that.
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And it was surreal.
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But my whole life, I've had this optimism that things will be okay.
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And I remember that all this, there was up to about 12 people in the room at one point
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and I could see that somebody was taking notes over in the back corner and then the surgeon
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came up at one point, the physio was standing over in the left-hand corner, just pale.
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He looked so scared.
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And I could hear what they were saying and they're saying, oh, he's not breathing.
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He doesn't have a pulse.
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And I was thinking, I'll be okay.
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I'll be okay.
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And at one point I said, can you get my partner?
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Call her.
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Call her.
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And so I saw somebody run off to go do that.
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And then I started to black out.
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Actually, just before that, I heard them say his blood pressure is 52 on 36.
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And at that point I thought, oh, I'm in real trouble here.
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And then actually it went a bit further before I blacked out.
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And I had this sense that I thought, oh gosh, this is dying.
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I'm dying right now.
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This is what dying is like.
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And then I had this immense sadness that nobody I loved was in the room with me.
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And it was this very deep, deep, painful sadness.
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And that's around the point where I blacked out.
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Keep going.
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What happened next?
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Then my experience was, and there was a lot of curiosity involved with this, my experience
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was that I had blacked out and I could see black, but I still had conscious awareness.
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And I knew that I was dying and I experienced myself become ripples.
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And these ripples were spreading out and out infinitely.
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And there was no separation between me and the ripples.
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I wasn't seeing ripples.
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I was the ripples.
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And they were going out all directions.
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And once again, there was this awareness, oh, I'm dying.
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And this was very, wasn't like in linear time where, you know, I thought might follow another
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thought it was almost like these insights were downloading instantly.
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And one of the insights I have was, oh, I still feel like myself.
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I thought when I die, I would become this enlightened Buddha.
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But there's still this sense of myself.
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And also I was conscious I had no physical pain.
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Did you at some point feel like there was a separation of you outside of your body?
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It's a good question.
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I actually felt like I just didn't have a body.
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It was very much I was the ripples and I was this consciousness.
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And were you still seeing black or did you see anything else?
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I was, it was still black, but there was this sensation of the ripples.
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And so I didn't physically see ripples.
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I just felt them.
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And you were them.
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What do you think they represented?
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For me, I'm not sure if it was part of the, should we call it the returning home process.
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Where for me, that was my way of moving from one state to the next.
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And I've listened to many NDE stories since.
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And I hear the commonality of people feeling like themselves.
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But yeah, I don't have an explanation for the ripples as such.
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What else were you feeling?
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So I felt very little at motion wise.
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So that deep sadness that that was gone.
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And it was just this awareness.
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So I didn't, I wasn't feeling massive amounts of joy or anything like that.
257
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It was almost like a neutrality.
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But as these ripples were going out, I started to bargain.
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I started to say, I want to stay.
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Who were you bargaining with?
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That's an ultimate question.
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I don't know if I can answer that with full knowing, but my sense is I was asking something
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greater than me.
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And I'm not sure if that was my soul that I was asking to stay for, or if it was this
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consciousness that was a greater awareness than me.
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But I just started communicating, I want to stay.
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I want to stay.
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And the ripples were still going out.
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And I was still very aware I'm still dying.
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I'm still dying.
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And then I started to say, well, I want to stay for my partner.
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I want to stay for the kids.
273
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,000
And the ripples were still going out and out and out.
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And then I felt these wants.
275
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And I said, I want to stay for the work that I do and walk the planet from my heart.
276
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,880
And the instant I expressed that, I came straight back into my body, I opened my eyes.
277
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I heard the staff say, we've got a pulse.
278
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His breathing, his eyes are open.
279
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:30,000
And interestingly, I came back to immense physical pain, level 11 physical pain.
280
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,480
And I was later told, because I'd lost so much blood, it was pressing on my organs.
281
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And that was what was causing the pain.
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That is one of the hardest things about coming back.
283
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:48,440
If not the, is that, and I've been assuming something I'm going to ask instead of assume,
284
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:54,720
when you were these ripples and this communication was going on, and you mentioned warmth, were
285
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,600
you feeling any pain or were you completely out of pain?
286
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,120
No pain whatsoever.
287
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:06,520
I assume that the drugs that you were being given there for the pain were also affecting
288
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,640
you mentally in some way.
289
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,400
Did you feel like that was gone too?
290
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,680
And your conscience consciousness was clear instead?
291
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,920
Yeah, I feel very, very, very clear in that moment.
292
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:27,920
And that the, yeah, I know the haze from having those kind of drugs.
293
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,760
And it wasn't that at all.
294
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It was a very clear sense of consciousness and that I was the consciousness.
295
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,240
This is so interesting because this is so different as you know, than most near death
296
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,080
experiences out there.
297
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,000
That doesn't make it any less real or anything like that.
298
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,680
I think it's fascinating.
299
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,080
And I think that you were given this experience to learn something.
300
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,560
What do you think you learned from it?
301
00:18:55,560 --> 00:19:00,000
And I have a feeling there's a lot, but start somewhere.
302
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:08,120
Yeah, I just learned so much because one was the impact of knowing that I am mortal in
303
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,080
this physical body.
304
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,440
So the reminder of being mortal and that time is limited.
305
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,160
And so for me, events can happen in life.
306
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:23,560
I can attach meaning to them and use them to create a better life.
307
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,600
Or I can go, well, that just happened.
308
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,400
I don't need to understand anything.
309
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,400
I didn't need to know anything.
310
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,160
But for me, it was okay, I had this experience.
311
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,880
I'm not interested in what the doctors say happened.
312
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,520
I know that I had this experience.
313
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,240
And for a long time, I doubted the experience for months.
314
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,280
I thought maybe I just fainted and then I eventually got to the point where, hang on
315
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,280
a second.
316
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,360
If I fainted, how was I able to think?
317
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,480
How was I able to have this conscious awareness?
318
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,920
And so it was coming back to I had this experience.
319
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:05,160
Okay, I exist after I leave my body.
320
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,160
And it's been this contemplation that's still with me all the time.
321
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,280
Oh, okay.
322
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,080
How can I make the most of my life?
323
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,640
I wasn't living from the heart, even though I was kind and I was generous.
324
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,640
I was what I can see now.
325
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,720
I was the martyr.
326
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,840
I was doing things out of obligation.
327
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:31,360
I was giving away 100% of my energy for everybody else.
328
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,240
And I wasn't listening to my heart.
329
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,360
So in regards to the relationship I was in at that time, it wasn't working.
330
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,160
It hadn't been working for years.
331
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,880
And it was very volatile.
332
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,840
And it was causing me a lot of distress.
333
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:50,960
And even though my intuition would be saying, you got to leave, you know, it's time to just
334
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,040
quit on this.
335
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,440
I wouldn't.
336
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:59,760
And so that was part of my suffering, was that I was in a relationship that wasn't working.
337
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:06,680
After the near-death experience, it was like this momentum started that I couldn't stop.
338
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,080
So my human mind wanted the relationship to continue.
339
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,640
And I was in hospital for three weeks.
340
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,360
And then three weeks after I got out of our hospital, the relationship just fell apart.
341
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:18,040
It was over.
342
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,240
And I was very, very, very ill.
343
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,200
I could hardly walk because I'd lost so much blood.
344
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,080
And then I developed a very, very severe blood clot in my leg.
345
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,560
And I literally had to start life all over again.
346
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,160
That was my daughter.
347
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:39,440
She came with me and I had her bedrooms worth of furniture.
348
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,800
And I almost had nothing else other than my music equipment.
349
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,200
And so we moved into a new house and it was bare.
350
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:50,360
It was just her bedroom and her desk and my music equipment.
351
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:55,080
And my health was very poor and life just started all over again.
352
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,440
And it was like the universe just stripped me, stripped me bare.
353
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,960
The inquiry around, okay, I wasn't living from my heart.
354
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:05,960
What did that mean?
355
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,840
What was stopping me from living from my heart?
356
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,720
How can I live from my heart?
357
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,600
What does it even mean to live from the heart?
358
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,120
Gosh, what a massive question.
359
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:23,080
And I treated my experience that I want to stay for the work that I do and walk the planet
360
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:29,960
from my heart as a contract that I wasn't going to come back to life.
361
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,240
I was not going to come back to this physical form.
362
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:39,760
However, I had the realization that I had to live life from my heart and that was the
363
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,280
linchpin.
364
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:48,200
And so coming back to this life, my contract has been, okay, the not negotiable is you
365
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,420
have to live from your heart.
366
00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:54,360
Not what the mind says, what the heart says.
367
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:58,520
And so that was a huge learning and it's still a huge learning every day.
368
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:04,600
Yeah, in what ways is that difficult because we still have to exist here.
369
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,080
We have to have food.
370
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,600
We have to earn a living.
371
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,840
We have to do those kind of things.
372
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:19,520
And I have a feeling if I was 100% living from my heart, I would be just like you going
373
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,520
surfing.
374
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,040
I would just be up on the beach or skiing every day or something like that.
375
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,760
And there's a practical side too.
376
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,760
So explain the balance and how does that work?
377
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,360
So for me, the practical side is that my mind is a tool.
378
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,480
It's not in charge.
379
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,200
It used to be in charge.
380
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:47,160
I was always doing what the rational mind was telling me, which was based on the past.
381
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,920
So it was based on what protected me in the past.
382
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,720
It was based on successes from the past.
383
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:59,720
Because the heart is this infinite guide that has this deep awareness and wisdom that's
384
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,560
saying go forward towards this.
385
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,720
And the mind is the tool for taking me there.
386
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,520
So there's the physical necessities of life, earning an income.
387
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,600
But when it's aligned with my heart, what I'm doing is I'm living what people would
388
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,120
say, taking aligned action.
389
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:23,240
It's aligned to my heart.
390
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,080
So there can be resistance to doing things.
391
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,800
The mind will kick in and like, oh, I don't feel like doing this today.
392
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,320
But the heart's guidance is that this is the way forward.
393
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,360
The mind is the tool for taking me there.
394
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:42,400
So there's been a big shift in that, that my mind isn't the decision center.
395
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,560
My mind is the tool.
396
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,480
The heart is the decision center.
397
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,000
And of course, the gut as well, that gut instinct, oh, no, this is right.
398
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,120
This is right.
399
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,200
But the mind is the tool.
400
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,120
That's a great explanation.
401
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:56,120
Thank you.
402
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,640
That was perfect.
403
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,360
Just a brief interruption.
404
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:05,040
This month, we're asking you, our favorite listener, to support the show.
405
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:10,440
It's definitely a labor of love for Will and me, but it takes a ton of time and money,
406
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,120
and we need donations to keep things going.
407
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:14,120
It's easy.
408
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:18,520
Go on over to roundtripdeath.com, click on the little donation button in the upper right
409
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,880
hand corner.
410
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,600
You can show your support for the podcast and help us move forward.
411
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:24,800
We appreciate it.
412
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,000
Merry Christmas and thank you, thank you.
413
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,880
Now back to the guest.
414
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:37,000
Okay, before we got started, before we were recording, you said specifically, Eric, you
415
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,680
can ask me anything.
416
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:39,680
Right?
417
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,680
Yeah, I got it.
418
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,240
I said you may be sorry.
419
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,200
I love it.
420
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,200
Okay.
421
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,200
Now, this won't be too bad.
422
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,000
I do want to ask you a couple of hard things.
423
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,720
If you've listened, I know you've listened to this show some, and you've probably heard
424
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:03,920
about a lot of people whose, their relationships changed drastically after their NDE.
425
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,560
That's a very common thing.
426
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,080
Marriages, many end in divorce, certainly not all, but many do.
427
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,600
Tell me why yours did, and you don't have to get into detail, but was it just because
428
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,280
of how different you were, or what was it?
429
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,520
There's a few reasons.
430
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:26,160
If we go sort of with a, with a birds eye view, it was just our time had finished, our time
431
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:32,560
with each other and learning from each other and being of benefit to each other had finished.
432
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,320
And that had been finished for a few years, but we were still hanging on.
433
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:37,520
That makes sense.
434
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,640
But you had kept hanging on until this happened.
435
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:41,640
Yes.
436
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,200
And then it sounds like your heart said, you can let go now, it's okay.
437
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,600
Well, see, my, my thing was, this can't go on like it is.
438
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,960
That this is what the realization was after the NDE experience.
439
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,360
This can't be like it is.
440
00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:01,960
And there was this point, I was in hospital and the doctors were considering doing a very
441
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,160
dangerous operation to clear the blood clot.
442
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,760
They got to this point and they said, we've decided not to do the operation.
443
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,960
It's too dangerous.
444
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,400
And my then partner came in and I told her we're not doing the operation.
445
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,240
And she said to me, well, I don't want to spend my life with somebody with a disability
446
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,840
and then walked out and slammed the door.
447
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,920
And that was the moment where I thought, do you know what?
448
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,240
I have given everything, everything.
449
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,800
There's been, she, she had been through cancer and there was times we thought the cancer was
450
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,520
back and I thought, I've given everything.
451
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,040
And I just felt so, it was a realization.
452
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,360
It was like, ah, okay, okay.
453
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:53,760
That experience would have made it easier to go, okay, we're done.
454
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:54,760
Yeah.
455
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,920
And she was a good person, right?
456
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,640
A really good person doing many good things in the world.
457
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,240
Not in that particular moment, I'd say.
458
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:02,240
Not what I needed.
459
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,080
However, it was what I needed, right?
460
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,760
Because it helped set me free.
461
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,760
Yeah.
462
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,600
In kind of a cruel way.
463
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,520
Okay, you, you described yourself as a martyr.
464
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:22,440
It sounds like that this martyr syndrome started back from the PTSD, from what happened
465
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:23,440
with your daughter.
466
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,840
Would you say that's the case?
467
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,760
I would say it was there beforehand.
468
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,120
And in that, my mom, I love her dearly.
469
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,520
She was a nurse for over 60 years.
470
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:41,840
She was a long-serving nurse in Australia and seeing how she gave and gave and gave
471
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:49,160
that that got hardwired into my, my personality structure around, this is how you live life.
472
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,520
And, and that worked for her, but it didn't work for me, right?
473
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,040
That was her heart, not my heart.
474
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,680
And so after the near-death experience, I said, ah, okay.
475
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:06,440
And one of the lessons that I had was actually it's not about giving, it's about sharing.
476
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,160
So there's part that's for me, there's part for you, right?
477
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,600
And it was the same thing with money.
478
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:17,600
I was giving all my money to help others and leaving myself with nothing.
479
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,800
So now the context is, okay, I will share.
480
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,680
I will share my energy.
481
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,440
I will share my time.
482
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,680
I'm still keeping pieces for me.
483
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,760
And that has been a much, much more sustainable way of living for me.
484
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:37,280
And I just bring that up because sometimes that can be part of the grieving process.
485
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Is this self-inflicted pain, martyrdom, whatever we want to call it can come out in a lot of
486
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:44,240
different ways.
487
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,680
So, yeah, thank you.
488
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,160
That's a good inquiry for me to explore.
489
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,160
Yeah.
490
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,640
Yeah, your heart will help you figure that one out.
491
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,480
You mentioned the physical healing was tough.
492
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,280
You were in the hospital for three weeks.
493
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:04,160
But tell me about right after this incident because, well, first of all, do you have any
494
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,320
idea how long your heart was stopped?
495
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:07,480
I don't.
496
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,440
And I did speak to the doctor about it on one occasion and he said, oh, you gave us a
497
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,440
fright but we weren't really worried.
498
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,600
And of course, please don't sue us.
499
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,520
Easy for him to say.
500
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:21,520
Yeah, yeah.
501
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,440
And I know it was very real.
502
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,800
And coming back to, I was just trusting my experience.
503
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:36,360
I had this experience and it was, okay, I don't need to know all the logistical details.
504
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:42,760
I just know I had this experience and I can either use that to make my life better or
505
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,160
I can get caught up in, you know, for example, the litigation was a big thing.
506
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:54,520
Do I sue because there was many things that went wrong before I had that experience but
507
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,000
also afterwards.
508
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,760
But for me, it was okay, I actually had to go through this experience.
509
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,440
I feel like there was another hand guiding what happened.
510
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,880
Who did you first tell about the experience?
511
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:14,280
It was probably my partner, I think, at that time.
512
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:19,720
I remember the first time that I started talking about it publicly, which I didn't want to
513
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,040
talk about it publicly.
514
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,760
But my guidance, these days are much, much better at listening to my intuition or my
515
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,720
guidance and guidance was you need to tell this story.
516
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,880
That's part of the entry fee to coming back is you have to tell this story.
517
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,280
And so the first time I did that publicly was I put a video on YouTube.
518
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,560
It was only because I had a coach who said, you should put a video of you telling the
519
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,320
story on your website.
520
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,560
And at that stage, I was just a beginning coach.
521
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:56,280
And so I thought, well, okay, and I resisted for about three months creating the video.
522
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,720
And eventually it just got to the point of surrender.
523
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,280
So I created the video and then within about a month, I had 70 or 80,000 views.
524
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,960
I started getting clients through the telling the story.
525
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,640
And so, okay, surrendering and trusting even more.
526
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:18,720
But I remember this moment in the hospital and I was in the ICU and it was maybe the
527
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,320
second day.
528
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,040
And I was really suffering.
529
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:30,240
And I remember saying to the nurse, I'm so grateful to know this level of suffering.
530
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,600
There's so many people in the world that are experiencing this level of suffering.
531
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,720
And I'm so grateful to know what this level of suffering is like in this lifetime.
532
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,320
And that just stood out to me.
533
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,800
Oh, where did that come from?
534
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,280
I bet that nurse had never heard that before.
535
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,080
No, nobody likes to suffer.
536
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,720
But having gratitude for absolutely everything, that's amazing.
537
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:53,720
Yeah.
538
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,640
Yeah, it was a very different experience.
539
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:01,840
And that was when I realized that something in me had changed from the near-death experience.
540
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,840
Yeah, absolutely.
541
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,960
By the way, you mentioned your website, ashpro.com.
542
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,200
We'll put it in the show notes for people that want to reach out to you.
543
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,960
What else is there to share with everybody out there?
544
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:20,520
I mean, you were basically told you need to share this.
545
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,880
Why and what's the main message?
546
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,480
Well, for me, the main message is listen to your heart, trust yourself.
547
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:35,880
And it's not just me that has that barrier in life that they're not listening to their
548
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,680
heart and they're not trusting themselves.
549
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:46,440
And so my experience was for me to access joy and the life that was truly possible was
550
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,360
I had to learn how the mind works.
551
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,400
And so in that, what were my past things?
552
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:59,600
And of course, that's an ongoing process all the time in life is going, oh, why did I react
553
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,400
that way?
554
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,840
And listening to the heart.
555
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:10,320
And so for me, there's this process where we go through, which is we learn about ourselves
556
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,120
so we can know ourselves.
557
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,480
And then when we know ourselves, we can be ourselves.
558
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,560
And the more that we be ourselves in the world, the more we back ourselves.
559
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,680
And when we back ourselves, we learn about ourselves.
560
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,160
And so it's like this cycle.
561
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:34,000
And for me, that's the cycle that I had to engage in so that I could create what I want
562
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,000
in my life.
563
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,840
So now for me, life is very loving.
564
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:38,840
It's a beautiful life.
565
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,120
I have very good physical health.
566
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,120
I love where I live.
567
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,480
We had a beautiful home.
568
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:52,480
Those values that I wanted, but was seeking in the wrong person before through me honoring
569
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:58,480
myself and trusting myself and trusting my own heart and intuition has led me to the
570
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,080
life that I wanted all along.
571
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,120
Beautifully said, what's your level of fear of death?
572
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,680
I'm going to put it at a one.
573
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,160
And I give it a one because I love my life so much.
574
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,200
But I don't have fear about going over the other side.
575
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,360
Okay.
576
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:25,320
There's, it's just part of the process of life is that there's this experience of leaving
577
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,120
life and coming into the other side.
578
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,720
And I don't know what the known is.
579
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:34,440
I used to be so attached to trying to work out the result of everything.
580
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,280
It's like this conversation.
581
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,440
I don't know what the result of our conversation is, what the outcome is.
582
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,880
I never know either, you know, and then I get an email from somebody telling me and
583
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,360
it's usually positive.
584
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:53,000
So, and I'm sure you're affecting people in a positive way today.
585
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,320
For me, the main part of the message of this today, and it may be different for other people,
586
00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,320
and I hope it is.
587
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,480
I hope everybody's getting out of this, whatever they need.
588
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,760
But for me, it's this whole heart, mind balance kind of thing.
589
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,000
I loved your explanation of the mind being a tool and following your heart.
590
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,920
What do you do when those things are really in conflict?
591
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,640
The first thing that comes to mind is the never in conflict.
592
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,920
It's just the perception that they're in conflict, which creates the struggle.
593
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:29,880
But so just, you know, it's very normal to go into the struggle and say, okay, there's
594
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,280
some story, there's something from the past that is preventing me from moving forward
595
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,280
on the guidance.
596
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,320
Okay, well, what is it?
597
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,960
And then it's having resources and tools.
598
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:47,600
And by that, you know, I now I have this amazing network of people that I can access to help
599
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:53,000
me process emotions, to help me process thoughts, but as well as that, there's eight years worth
600
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,000
of tools.
601
00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:00,640
Okay, so for example, somebody I truly love is Phil Stutz, and he works with somebody
602
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,960
called Barry Michaels, and they have this body of work called the tools.
603
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,680
And they're these short visualizations you can do to work through challenging things
604
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:10,680
in your life.
605
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,920
I love those tools.
606
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:19,160
And so for me, it's like, okay, there's just this kind of little speed bump.
607
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,960
I spend time with the speed bump.
608
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:27,720
I spend time contemplating the other part of it, which the duality of it is, well, I
609
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:29,120
don't spend time with it.
610
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,520
I just observe the emotion come through and move on like clouds.
611
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,120
If the cloud gets stuck, there's a story.
612
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,040
Oh, what's the story?
613
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,360
Otherwise, you know, it's just anger.
614
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,360
It can come and go.
615
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,360
It's just grief.
616
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,360
It can come and go.
617
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,360
It's just joy.
618
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,000
It can come and go.
619
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:51,120
But if it sticks and I start to go into struggle, there's some sort of story from the past that's
620
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,640
holding it there.
621
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:59,520
Prior to your experience, did you have any kind of belief or thoughts on an afterlife?
622
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,160
About 12 months before my near-death experience, I'm guessing around that timeframe.
623
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,720
It might have even just been four months.
624
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:09,080
I went to a Wayne Dyer workshop.
625
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:14,080
I didn't know this was going to happen, but he brought Anita Mujani on the stage.
626
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,080
She's awesome.
627
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,080
I've met her.
628
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,080
Yeah, she's great.
629
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,280
Ah, and there was this whole different energy in the room.
630
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:27,760
Now, the room was already quite expanded working with Wayne Dyer, one of the true masters.
631
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:33,200
And then Anita Mujani spoke, and there was this totally different feel in the room.
632
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,560
And I had curiosity and I read a book.
633
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,480
And so I had this, well, maybe, you know, that was her experience.
634
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:41,480
I don't know.
635
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,920
You know, it's possible we live after we die.
636
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,840
I'd already been trained in Reiki, which was a real key moment for me in life going, ah,
637
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,760
actually, there is energy.
638
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,360
Before that, everything was black and white.
639
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,280
It was physical and nothing else.
640
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:01,600
And when I trained in Reiki, I realized, wow, there's this energetic thing.
641
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,640
I don't understand it.
642
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,560
So there was curiosity, but there definitely wasn't the understanding that I have now.
643
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,120
And can you give some advice for somebody that is struggling with that?
644
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,160
You know, maybe they just don't, ah, I don't know.
645
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,320
This whole thing about an afterlife sounds kind of like baloney because my brain, not
646
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,440
my heart.
647
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,680
My brain's telling me that that's not logical and that can't be.
648
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,240
I'm going to give you the final word here.
649
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:30,240
Speak to that person.
650
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:37,400
There's so many moments in your life that you have had evidence that you are much more
651
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,800
than just a brain and a body.
652
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,760
And that might be just moments of intuition where you've thought of somebody and they've
653
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:49,280
called you or that you've woken up in the middle of the night with a dream and it's
654
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,280
giving you an insight into what's happening in your life or next steps.
655
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:55,280
Trust it.
656
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,640
You just got to trust it.
657
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,440
And if you just follow your path, it's going to open up.
658
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,200
Like if you go into a forest and initially the forest, there's all these branches and
659
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,720
it looks dark and then you go into the forest and it's easier to move around.
660
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:11,560
Once you're already in the forest, you discover waterfalls.
661
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:12,560
It's all there.
662
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:17,000
It's just taking step after step after step and trusting yourself as you go.
663
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,000
Beautiful.
664
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,000
And Dash, thank you so much for being with me today.
665
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,000
Thank you, Eric.
666
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,560
It's just such an honor to spend time with you and love your questions.
667
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:26,560
Love your podcast.
668
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,480
Thank you.
669
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:30,880
Thanks again for listening.
670
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,000
If you haven't already, hit that follow or subscribe button.
671
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,000
Now is a great time to do it.
672
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,080
And if you want to help us continue to put out this kind of quality content, head on
673
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,320
over to roundtripdeath.com.
674
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,440
Look for that itty-bitty donate button in the upper right hand corner.
675
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,120
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676
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,440
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677
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,600
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678
00:40:53,600 --> 00:41:18,400
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