Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome, welcome to RoundtripDeath everybody and to our very special guest today, Reverend
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Nigel Mumford.
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Good morning, Nigel, how are you?
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I'm very good today, thank you, very good.
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I'm alive.
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Hey, we're both alive.
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And I will tell people, you gave me permission to call, just call you Nigel.
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Yes.
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I don't want to be irreverent or disrespectful.
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Does that still hold?
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Absolutely, sir.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Well, I appreciate it very much.
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Normally, at the beginning of our interviews, before we get into somebody's near-death
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experience, I ask a guest to tell us a little bit about themselves.
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We just like to get to know you.
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I want to do it slightly different with you.
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I want you to tell me, just take a minute or so, what is an average day like for you?
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What do you do from sun up to sun down?
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Well, on a Sunday is different than the other days of the week.
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I only work in the mornings because I'm semi-retired, medically retired.
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But basically, I listen, love and pray to people all over the world in person and on
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Zoom.
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I've been called to the healing ministry 34 years ago.
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And as a former drill instructor in Her Majesty's War on Marine Commodos, I was a green beret.
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My job was to make Roman cry.
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Now I'm a priest.
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I still make Roman cry, and women and children.
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Not intentionally, of course.
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But I found my calling, and I just love my work.
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There's nothing else I'd want to do.
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It would have been nice if it was in England, in my home country, but God has planted me
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here and we bloom where we're planted.
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So really, it's been an incredible journey.
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It still is, from wanting to be an English Bobby, failing the entrance exam three times,
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joining Her Majesty's War on Marine Commodos because I needed to prove myself, passing
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the entire green beret course in seven months' first time without failing.
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And then going to combat for a year of my life and going around the world.
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Prince Charles, I was on board ship with the now King Charles, he was my helicopter pilot.
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Lots of stories, written several books, and a life-changing moment of a woman one day
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coming into my shop saying, we've got a headache.
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And I saw my hands gone to her head and she said, what did you do?
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The pain is gone.
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So my life has been totally changed from several, well, two major near-death experiences
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and 16 very close calls with that.
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By the way, if anybody wants to reach out to you later, it's fathernigel.com.
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It'll be in the show notes.
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And there they can learn about your books and how to get ahold of you and things like
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that.
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I can't imagine you as the tough drill sergeant guy making grown men cry because you are so
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kind and so gentle.
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And it would almost be funny to see that alter ego of you.
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Looking back on that, it was an absolute act I put on that face.
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And it all was.
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I mean, it was all a big show because quite frankly, you're dealing with death and their
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possible death.
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If they didn't do combat right, if I didn't train them properly, they would die.
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Or their mates would die.
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So yeah, I was a mean, green, mean fighting machine.
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And I'm not so mean.
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And not so lean, I can tell you.
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Welcome to the club.
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Okay, let's go back to, let's see.
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Wow.
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Back when you were a Marine, this was, this isn't the NDE that we're going to talk about
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the most, but you have a couple of them.
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So let's start there.
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You had a drowning incident.
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Tell me what happened.
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Well, it was 1975.
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I'd been in the Marines for a couple of years.
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It was a Sunday morning.
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I was in Malta in the Blue Lagoon, the Blue Cross, excuse me, in Malta.
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And I had a hangover.
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I didn't have breakfast.
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I'd never been diving before.
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I rented equipment.
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The weight belt was way too heavy for me and I didn't know how to remove it.
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And I very stupidly went down to 75 feet on my first dive, which is really stupid.
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I mean, we did a little test in the shallows and just went under to make sure that the
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equipment was working.
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But then for some reason, I just followed this valley under underwater and sat on the
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sand.
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And I remember looking up thinking, how do I get here from there?
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I've seen movies of divers swimming this way and going down, but I've never really seen
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a dive go up and I didn't know how to go up.
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So I looked up and remembering, I absolutely freaked out.
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But I did too that.
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There was water in my mask that went up my nose.
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I didn't know how to clear it.
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And I choked.
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I panicked.
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And I shot up.
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After sitting in the peaceful surroundings on the sand at the bottom of this valley
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underwater, the realization of not knowing how to get from here is almost like looking
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at the ceiling today, realizing there's no way I don't know how to get to the ceiling.
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We can't get to the ceiling.
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But underwater you can.
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Not the illusion of pure, not the illusion, the pure panic that came about me realizing
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I didn't know the protocols.
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And of course, I shot straight up.
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I didn't know that I had to continue to let my air out of my lungs.
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Otherwise, I'd have an embolism or the bends.
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I knew that.
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But Eric, I remember reaching the surface and screaming a few bad words.
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I was a marine.
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I've given them up, given them up mostly as a praise, but they do slip out.
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Sometimes once a marine or was a marine.
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I come out of the water and I get pulled down under and I come out again.
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And then I'm realizing somehow I'm next to the rocks and I'm trying to claw myself out
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with all the equipment.
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I couldn't get the weight belt off.
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I was clawing my way up the rocks, which were very jagged.
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The rocks in the Mediterranean are sharp, not softened like they are here in the waves.
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Afterwards I had no skin left and all my fingers, all the skin had been ripped off.
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All my fingernails were split laterally.
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The pain was excruciating and my knees were all scraped up and I had 62, 3 quarter inch
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C.H.
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and needles in my feet as well afterwards.
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But anyway, so here am I being dragged under, dragged under.
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I couldn't get the weight belt off.
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And then I knew it was time.
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I knew it was time to die.
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But I knew I'd held my breath as long as I could.
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And I was in sheer panic, absolutely traumatized by knowing that this is it.
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And it was an extraordinary feeling because as I took in that breath.
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What I expected was totally opposite.
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It was absolute peace.
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This peace of sort of filtered into me.
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No fear, no worry, total peace.
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And when that happened, I just relaxed and obviously I assume I just sank.
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Then I saw this yellow bright yellow disc circle like a tunnel.
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I always assume when we say where it's having we look up.
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But actually it can be from any point of the 180 from one side of the globe to the other.
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We can point this way, you know, and heavens over there.
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And that's what I realized that this tube wasn't a vertical tube.
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It was actually horizontal.
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So it sucked me up into this yellow, beautiful, peaceful vision experience of absolute joy.
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And then I saw the, you know, I don't know if I realized I was supposed to see slides
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of my life.
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But that's what happened.
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I saw slides like a slide show, old fashioned slide show.
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Wonderful.
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And then gone, then lights out.
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So but I know I only got up to my waist and I was sort of hanging sideways.
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My body was here.
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My feet were hanging down.
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I could smile now, but at the time it was nothing to smile about.
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And then lights out.
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I was told later that there was a Royal Navy diving team around the corner that they came
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heard by my words of help.
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They came, called me out, resuscitated me to have any memory of that.
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Next memory I had of that incident was in the backseat of the rental car that I'd rented
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my friend Chris driving like a crazy man and vomiting copious amounts of sea water.
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Gasping in between each breath has always water came out.
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And I got to tell you, Eric, that I thought this is a real bad day because when I came
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to, we were on the wrong side of the road headed for a Maltese bus.
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When the Maltese drivers, bus drivers, I know they're being pretty bad.
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I pushed myself up having rotted lots of water, realizing, oh God, I'm going to die
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in a car crash.
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Anyway, the next thing I remember was going to the hospital.
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I remember the noise of a helicopter because they were going to send me down to the diving
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chamber to, you know, put me in one of those, what do you call them?
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Isobaric chambers.
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Thank you very much.
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Thank you.
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Yeah.
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I was in hospital for three days.
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They didn't find me down there.
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I spent three days in hospital and I was a mess.
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I really was.
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And I didn't tell anybody about the experience because I didn't think fellow Marines would
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appreciate my story.
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And I never told that story to anybody, not even to the physician, until I emigrated to
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America in 1980 and I saw a TV on NEDs, a TV show, and somebody described what I'd experienced.
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Whoa, I can talk about this.
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Now I'm not nuts.
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Well, back then, people did think you were crazy if you talked about it.
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In fact, the term near-death experience, I don't know if you know this.
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It was devised that very same year in 1975, I believe, by Dr. Raymond Moody.
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Really?
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Really?
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So there's a 50th anniversary of that coming up this year.
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That doesn't mean NDEs didn't happen before then.
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We just didn't have a name for them.
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We didn't know what to call them.
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Bibliologically, I would challenge you on that.
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And because 2 Corinthians 12-2 writes about Paul, who was stoned almost to death and he
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survived.
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And he writes, I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven.
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So Paul is talking in the third person.
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He says, I know a man in Christ.
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It was him.
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So he's deflecting it.
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And he says, listen to this, whether it was in body or out of body, I don't know.
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So the Bible coined the term out of body experiences, which is what NEDs are.
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NDE, excuse me.
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NDE, yeah.
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NDE, bit of dyslexia there.
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Anyway, and this is what my book was based on, knowing that Paul had had this experience
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and he was nearly killed by being stoned to death.
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Somehow he survived, but he was caught up into the third heaven, which is describing the
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highest realm where God's presence is most divine.
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And I like that.
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You know, Raymond Moody, yes, coined the phrase, NED, death experience, but this goes way back
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to even before Paul.
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I'm sure they've been going on forever.
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Most people didn't talk about him.
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Paul was gutsy enough to talk about it, and that's pretty cool.
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Heck, Lazarus.
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I mean, he, the classic NED death experience, you know.
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Come out and he comes out with his grave clothes on.
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I mean, I love that story.
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And the woman who's dead, the child who's dead.
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I mean, it's in the Bibles.
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Jarius' daughter.
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Exactly.
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Well done, sir.
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Yes, I couldn't remember her name, sir.
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I'd better take this off.
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I couldn't quote the verse.
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Don't be do that.
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I can look it up.
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I know the story, it's an awesome story because I have daughters I can feel for him, how he
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must have been feeling when that happened.
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By the way, I just have to interject this because every time it seems like on this podcast,
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if someone comes on and starts talking about Christianity or for that matter, some other
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religion, and we talk about all of it here, this is a very non-denominational and safe
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space.
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And somebody is going to say, oh, that Father Nigel, he just had a Christian agenda, blah,
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blah, blah.
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Okay, get over yourself.
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Whoever is thinking that, we're just talking about what happened to you and what happened
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to other people.
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And people on this show have seen Buddha and Muhammad and other things like that.
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And I can't give all the reasons why these experiences are so different, but they are.
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And that's okay.
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And it doesn't mean that they're not real.
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I vet everybody before they come on this show.
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Did we have a pre-interview the other day?
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We sure did.
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Okay, that's how it works.
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I have kind of a crazy meter if I think somebody's off relying to me.
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You haven't heard them on the show because I don't put them on.
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Good, oh God.
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That's not a crazy meter.
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I want to say God vetting people because they shouldn't do that.
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And having said that, having said that, Eric, I want to say that I have nothing to prove.
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I have absolutely nothing to prove.
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I don't need to prove anything.
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Even this near-death experience, I didn't need to prove the Bible.
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I have nothing.
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I don't have an agenda.
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I just think this is a privilege to tell my story so people aren't afraid of death.
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I appreciate that.
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I have one question about this first experience of yours.
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Yeah.
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I think that's how terrifying it must have been and the fact that we know now about how
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there can be a second drowning even when you're in the hospital and have been saved.
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People can die later that night and things like that.
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But you mentioned, I believe you called it sort of like a slideshow of seeing things
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that had happened during your life.
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And we refer to those as life reviews.
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I'd love to hear more about that.
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What was that like?
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What kinds of things did you see?
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I saw vivid slides of my past, my parents picnicking on Dartmoor, in Devon, all sorts of flashes
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of my life.
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The weird thing, Eric, was that I wasn't sure if I was supposed to think that or it
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was actually happening.
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And for some reason, I knew that you were supposed to see that when you died.
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So I can't correlate the difference of thinking, well, I'm supposed to see this, I'm dying,
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I'm supposed to see flashes.
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But I knew what I saw.
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Did you see good things that happened and maybe things that you regretted both?
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No, all good.
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Everything was all positive.
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All good.
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Yeah, everything was all good.
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So you probably felt no guilt or anything then?
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No, none at all.
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It was lovely.
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I mean, the sad thing, the only drawback was this.
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I used to own a picture frame business and somehow I got onto this conversation with
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a woman who didn't tell me the reason why she wanted me to talk about this near-death
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experience.
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And when I'd finished telling her the story, this was in Connecticut, she told her that
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her sister went for a swim and didn't stop swimming.
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She committed suicide.
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And the irony of this was that she was asking me what it was like to drown without telling
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me why and when she told me, I felt so gutted.
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It was way before I was a priest.
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I felt so broken.
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I felt betrayed.
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But what had happened to her, that it gave her great peace in knowing that actually breathing
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in water, and I'm not condoning suicide by any means, but she felt comforted by what
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had happened to me because that probably happened to her sister.
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So how did you feel?
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Explain what you were feeling.
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It was two parts.
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As I mentioned, the first part was raw terror of trying to get the belt off, of being dragged
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under.
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And I ripped my mask off, by the way, when I reached the surface because I didn't want
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to rely on the breathing tube and I couldn't get it back as I was being pulled under.
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So totally helpless, fighting for my life, trying to stay afloat, trying to breathe,
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raw fear, panic.
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And then being dragged under, holding my breath for as long as I possibly could, and then
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knowing, okay, this is it.
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I don't know where the pictures came in.
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I think it probably came after I took the breath, but the breath, the water.
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But I knew without a doubt my next breath was death.
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I knew that.
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So I held my breath to the ultimate point when I had to breathe in, and actually again
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what I'd breathe in was peace.
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Absolute peace.
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There was no fear, no worry, no anxiety, all that just drifted away, and it was okay.
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Isn't that amazing?
328
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,160
Yeah, I'm smiling because my soul is smiling and remembering this.
329
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,880
I don't get to tell this story very often.
330
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It's extremely personal, but it's very real.
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00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,680
Now let me just qualify this because as a Royal Marine I spent a whole year of my life
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in combat.
333
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,720
I wouldn't say where it was, but it was extremely unpleasant.
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I saw raw man's inhumanity to man.
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I saw horrific deaths.
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I saw people shot at, blown up.
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Just dreadful experiences, apart from the fact that I was shot at three times and blown
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up five times, and also injured in the head, which bleeds very much, but that's another
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story.
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So, you know, having witnessed death for a year of my life, very traumatic death, and
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00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,520
quite frankly spending that entire year constantly worrying when I was on patrol, either in a
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vehicle on foot or guarding the base camp, constantly thinking, where is it, where's
343
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it going to hurt?
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Where's the bullet going to hit me?
345
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Is it going to go in my eyes?
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Is it going to hit my shoulder?
347
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What's it going to feel like?
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00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,640
The bombs, I was involved in five very, very powerful bombs, one in particular, the Nestle
349
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and its milk chocolate factory, but I won't go into details.
350
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But anyway, it was so bad it blew me off my feet, and I ended up putting my hands in my
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ears and down with trousers, the major I saw, it still together because it felt like
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I'd been kicked.
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And I couldn't hear for several hours.
354
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It was death, totally death.
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But, you know, having spent a year of my life in raw fear, raw anxiety, constantly worrying
356
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what's it going to feel like, and then having this drowning experience took away all that
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fear.
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And the second thing we're going to talk about later, also that qualifying, quantifying,
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underpinning that fear, which has gone completely.
360
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Pain, that's another story which I'll talk about, but the fear of death has gone.
361
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I have no fear of death.
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And I'm living my life to the fullest.
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Sadly, I mean, many people, you know, I talk to a lot of people every day.
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I've talked to thousands of people.
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00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,840
Fear of death is up there.
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It really is in the human realm of nature.
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And you know, that has gone with me completely.
368
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,440
Then having, as a priest, having held the hands of many people dying, wonderful deaths.
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00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,320
I've had some wonderful stories of that, if you'd like me to share that.
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00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,000
One particular story.
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Let's come back to those.
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I'm going to make a note here.
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How does it change someone's life when they have no fear of death?
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I can't tell anybody else, but only from my own experience, how did it change my life?
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Is to realize that this is not a dress rehearsal.
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This is it.
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This is our one chance.
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00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:31,360
For me, the second experience I had, the joy, the two things happened of the second
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00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,440
experience.
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00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,680
One was that I totally lost my sense of direction.
381
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,880
If it wasn't for GPS, I think I'd be in Marrakesh.
382
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,120
But it also gave me a brand new sense of humor.
383
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,640
Let's go ahead and jump to that experience.
384
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,160
So we're going to fast forward to 2009 now, correct?
385
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,080
Go ahead and tell us what happened then.
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00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,520
2009, I was invited by the British government, the Royal Air Force, to speak at a conference
387
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,560
on post-traumatic stress.
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00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,320
One of my books is called, After the Trauma of the Battle Begins.
389
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,400
I specialize in traumatic experiences, particularly in combat stress.
390
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:14,640
So I'd been invited to be a speaker for several hundred Royal Air Force members.
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00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:20,200
When I was there in 2009, I picked up the swine flu, unbeknownst to me, I didn't know,
392
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,640
I picked up the H1M1 virus.
393
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,800
So I came back to the United States on the Friday, I think it was Saturday night.
394
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,680
I couldn't stop coughing, violent coughing, just couldn't stop.
395
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,800
And it's during the morning, I said to my wife, I think I need to go to the hospital.
396
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,200
Men don't like to admit it, but I said there's something wrong.
397
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:47,080
So I went to the hospital, saw the on-duty doctor, the ER, who gave me a puffer, said,
398
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,640
you're having adult onset asthma and sent me home.
399
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,120
An hour or two later, I used the puffer and collapsed with respiratory arrest.
400
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:57,560
My wife and my daughter were with me and I was dying in front of them.
401
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,720
They were screaming, they were terrified, I couldn't breathe.
402
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,640
Anyway, they called an ambulance, ambulance came, picked me up, rushed me back to the
403
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:05,640
hospital.
404
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,760
The same doctor who'd seen me before saw me and I shall never, ever forget his face
405
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,240
of absolute horror thinking I shouldn't have sent him home.
406
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,240
I remember that.
407
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,680
In fact, I wrote him a letter, never responded.
408
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,840
So for the next 10 days I was in the hospital, they thought I had Legionnaires' disease
409
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,280
because I'd been in a place where the air condition was so filthy.
410
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,880
That's another story.
411
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,680
Anyway, they thought I had Legionnaires.
412
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:34,360
So I was isolated and actually they put a fan on me because I had a temperature of 104.
413
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,040
So this fan was spreading the disease all around the room.
414
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,040
They didn't realize it.
415
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,200
I don't remember them being masked.
416
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:45,040
But anyway, so for 10 days I was coughing so violently, so badly, they put me in an
417
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,200
induced coma because I hadn't slept.
418
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,880
And I remember saying goodbye to my wife and I knew I was, again, this time I was going
419
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,600
to die the second time.
420
00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:00,320
So I remember seeing her leave and remembering people behind me and having been told that
421
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,320
I was going to be in an induced coma and then lights out.
422
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,200
I know my wife was asked to leave before they integrated me, thank goodness.
423
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,280
And then lights out.
424
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,280
And that was it.
425
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,280
I mean, I was asleep.
426
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,280
Nothing.
427
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,280
Absolutely nothing.
428
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,880
Now, chronologically, I can't give the timeline because I was in a coma for three weeks.
429
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,400
My wife was with me for 72 straight days.
430
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:29,800
My body had an ice blanket on it and my blood was being dialysis chilled.
431
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,760
My blood was actually being chilled through dialysis.
432
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,120
It was that bad.
433
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,080
When I was in this state, there was one point where the doctor said there's nothing more
434
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,280
we can do.
435
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,280
And there's when a friend of mine stepped up and said, okay, now it's God's turn, but
436
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,560
I'll come back to that.
437
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,800
So Eric, I'm in a coma.
438
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,800
And the first extraordinary thing that I saw was a blade of grass.
439
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,920
A color in all of my visions that God gave me.
440
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,200
The color was, I can't even describe the color.
441
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,080
The first was a blade of grass, a big, great blade of grass.
442
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,880
And I just observed that blade of grass for, seemed like ages.
443
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:09,200
So I was just looking at this, the beauty of this blade of grass, one blade of grass,
444
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,400
observing it, looking at it, enjoying it.
445
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,640
And then pulling back and seeing many blades of grass.
446
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,880
Then pulling back again and seeing three granite steps.
447
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,960
The color of that granite, you know, granite is gray and white-ish.
448
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,440
And the color was just extraordinary, these three steps.
449
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,440
What did that represent?
450
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,160
Perhaps the trinity, I don't know.
451
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,360
I walked up the three steps.
452
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:35,800
I walked on this beautiful grass path where I saw three white tulips.
453
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:36,800
Perfect.
454
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:37,800
Absolutely perfectly.
455
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,560
All of them slightly different, but all perfect.
456
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:42,760
Then I walked on a bit more.
457
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,280
Oh, let me go back a show.
458
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,320
I missed that, a very important thing.
459
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,880
I'm lying in bed.
460
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,520
I realize I'm lying in bed and then I realize I'm leaving my body.
461
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,040
This is very important and I forgot that bit.
462
00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,400
So I felt my whole spirit leave and go up through the roof and I'm thinking, you can't
463
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,400
do that.
464
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,600
You just can't physically go through the roof.
465
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,880
There seemed to be a correlation of rising to the water level and going through the ceiling,
466
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,880
which I did.
467
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,880
And I went through the ceiling.
468
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,720
I remember trying to turn my head to say goodbye to my wife, Lin.
469
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,240
And I don't know whether it was because I was intubated, who knows.
470
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,400
Anyway, I tried to say goodbye and I was panicking similar to the water.
471
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,240
Like, oh my God, I can't say goodbye.
472
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,560
And then again, that peace came upon me.
473
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,840
No pain, no despair, breathing.
474
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,000
I mean, not even aware of breathing.
475
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,720
What I saw was complete darkness.
476
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,560
Then I saw stars and I saw so many stars, all this light in the darkness.
477
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:46,680
Then I saw this bar about a mile long and about six miles high and it looked like a book.
478
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,960
The lights then condensed onto the front of the book.
479
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,960
And I know I was looking at the book of life.
480
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,360
It's in the Bible.
481
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,680
And now I was looking at souls in heaven.
482
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,920
It was as if I looked at the first light at the top left hand corner and tried to look
483
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,080
underneath it to read the bibliography of that person because I knew it was a soul.
484
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,080
I knew each white dot was a soul, thousands on each page.
485
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,200
And it was like, you don't need to look under the dot, you just look at the light and you
486
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,440
know who that person is.
487
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,600
Then the bottom of the page turned up in darkness and the whole page turned and I felt the wind
488
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,800
of the page of the book of life.
489
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:29,600
I felt this beautiful calming wind cooling me down, which is obviously what I needed.
490
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,800
And then the second page and then thousands and thousands and this kept going for, I have
491
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,520
no idea, I lost all track of time.
492
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,720
But I was being introduced to the book of life and looking at people who are on the book
493
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,560
of life.
494
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,040
Then I saw the steps and I saw the tulips.
495
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,040
Then I saw my house in heaven.
496
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,040
It was made of glass.
497
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,800
I love to tell ladies there was no kitchen in my house.
498
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,440
You don't need it.
499
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,360
How did you know it was your house?
500
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:55,360
You just knew?
501
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:56,360
I just knew.
502
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:57,360
This is where I'm going to live.
503
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:58,360
Yeah.
504
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,280
I also, at some point, again, the time I didn't know, but I also saw the mansions.
505
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:09,040
I saw these beautiful Victorian ladies as they call these mansions.
506
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,240
Maybe because I thought I knew I should see that again.
507
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,240
I don't know.
508
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,320
But I didn't see anybody at this point.
509
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,680
I didn't see people.
510
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,680
Nobody was there welcoming me to heaven.
511
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:18,840
I didn't see my grandparents.
512
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,120
I didn't see anybody.
513
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:22,520
So I saw all these beautiful houses.
514
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,960
Then I went back to my house, which was glass.
515
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,640
All the corners were made of angle iron.
516
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,840
Beautiful fire engine red.
517
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,560
The red was extraordinary.
518
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,520
I mean, you know, everything was glass.
519
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,560
The furniture was glass.
520
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,920
The bed was glass.
521
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,240
The floors were glass, but it was diamond shaped.
522
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,360
It wasn't built like a rectangle.
523
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,400
It was diamond at the bottom here and then here.
524
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,680
And it had various rooms off it.
525
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:55,000
And the amazing thing was on each floor, there was what looked like a heating vent, but you
526
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,040
flipped up the lid on it.
527
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:02,200
And you had this gold or silver, and why sometimes it was gold, sometimes it was silver.
528
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,000
You dropped this chalice into the water and you grabbed the water from the water, which
529
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,760
was flowing through the bottom of the house, living water.
530
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,480
You could take the chalice, take that water.
531
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,960
And if you wanted fish and chips, it tasted like fish and chips.
532
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,960
The water did.
533
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:17,960
Yes.
534
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,440
If you wanted a gin and tonic, you'd take it.
535
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,440
Well, no, I don't drink gin, but I don't drink any more, but I don't drink any less.
536
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,800
If you wanted a Guinness.
537
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,160
If you wanted a Guinness, it tasted like a Guinness too.
538
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,600
Now, it was an extraordinary experience.
539
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,240
And not that we need to eat in heaven, but it was just very satisfying.
540
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,920
It was very comforting.
541
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,600
The frightening bit, I did see sub-darkness.
542
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:45,000
I did see things involving hooks and spikes and major fish hooks and people being stuck
543
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000
on that.
544
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,800
But I didn't write about that in my book.
545
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,000
I didn't want to focus on the horror.
546
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:57,200
But there was a time where I knew it was time and I was crawling down the valley of the
547
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,200
shadow of death.
548
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:04,360
And ironically, the walls on the valley were very similar to the rocks in the scuba diving
549
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,360
accident.
550
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,840
And I knew there was no way I could claw my way out of the valley.
551
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,680
There was a correlation between the dry and the drowning.
552
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,560
So the path was fairly wide and it was semi-cylindrical.
553
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,640
And it was smooth.
554
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,080
It was well-worn rock, well-worn smooth wall.
555
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,800
And I knew I was paralyzed.
556
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:28,800
I knew I couldn't walk.
557
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,920
And I knew I was using my elbows like the leopard core we do in the war marines.
558
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,520
I was using my elbows to pull myself forward because my legs didn't work.
559
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,560
And I knew that.
560
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,040
It was not a comfortable experience.
561
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,400
It was a revelation knowing that I was crawling to my death, knowing that I wasn't going to
562
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,280
come out the other side.
563
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,560
The comforting moments were when I looked up, I saw Jesus on the cross, his head down.
564
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,240
He didn't say anything, but the only person I saw in heaven was him.
565
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,000
And he was looking at me as I was crawling.
566
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,440
And his eyes, I don't know if I can do this, his eyes were looking at me and moving from
567
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,760
his left to right, looking at me and egging me on.
568
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:10,960
Keep going Nigel, keep going.
569
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,520
He didn't say it.
570
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,080
He communicated just with his eyes from the cross.
571
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,640
Today it stounds me.
572
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,280
Anyway, I came to this left turn.
573
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,440
It was a bit like a railroad track where there's a turn out going straight, one going to the
574
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,440
left.
575
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,240
And I got to the left point crawling and I stopped and it was hell.
576
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,680
Hell was a mockery of heaven.
577
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,680
It was black.
578
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,680
It was oozing evil.
579
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,800
There were these pillars, there were these rocks, there were these walls of pure, pure
580
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,760
evil.
581
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,840
It was terrifying.
582
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,640
And I paused on that journey right there and screamed, no.
583
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,800
I remember screaming that in a coma.
584
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,440
And it was as if I was invited to look and help.
585
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,920
And it was beyond terrifying.
586
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,640
It was far worse than drowning because I knew it was real.
587
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:10,400
And everything I saw was so real and so colorful, but this gray black mass.
588
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,920
I cut him into words.
589
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,200
Anyway, thank God, from then I jumped back to the valley and I was crawling along and
590
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,920
I came around this corner to the right and there it was, heaven.
591
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,240
It looked the same as hell, but it wasn't black, it wasn't dark, it was gold and it
592
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,280
was light, it was beautiful.
593
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,440
I didn't get to the gate.
594
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,080
I can't wait to see Peter when it's my turn because I'm gonna have my hands on my hips
595
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,560
and say, Peter, what the heck was that all about?
596
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,560
And that vision stopped.
597
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,280
So my book I go into far greater detail.
598
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:45,600
In writing the book, I got to the point where I had a trach and in writing the chapter on
599
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:52,600
the trach, what had happened was in the dream I had, clearly they were doing the trach,
600
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,520
I was, I didn't like male nurses.
601
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,560
I didn't want male nurses to come anywhere near me.
602
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,800
And these two male nurses grabbed my body off the gurney, threw me on what I thought
603
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,560
was the killing table.
604
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,720
One of the male nurses stuck his knee in my throat because I wasn't dead.
605
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,920
It was 10 o'clock.
606
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,800
I saw my coffin.
607
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,720
I saw, I heard a clicking of glasses.
608
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,960
I heard people, it was just about 10 o'clock and I wasn't dead.
609
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:24,240
So this guy stuck his knee in my throat and I couldn't fight at no power.
610
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,040
And I couldn't write about that because I was so traumatized because I'd forgotten about
611
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,280
it and he came back in writing the book.
612
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,640
But realizing what was happening was I was being shown what happened.
613
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,160
And I couldn't write for several days until they asked my wife.
614
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,760
I said, you know, I told her, I said, you know, it was 10 o'clock, I saw the clock
615
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,240
and she looked at me, she said, it was 10 o'clock when they did the trach.
616
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,760
And that absolutely blew me away.
617
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:55,000
So that point was, yeah, that was the clearing of being able to realize that actually what
618
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,920
I felt was the pressure of my throat being cut.
619
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,280
The appliance, or whatever you call it, the thing, the plastic thing they put in the
620
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,240
throat and the terror of that.
621
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,520
And then I was able to write about that.
622
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:14,560
But the irony of that was later after I was upright again, probably six months later,
623
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,760
I had a friend of mine who was an FBI agent who jokingly went to grab my throat and I
624
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,120
know he broke her arm.
625
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,440
With someone who's had a trach, you don't mess with that.
626
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,440
It's very frightening.
627
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,480
And, you know, it was still there.
628
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,000
My marine training was still there.
629
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,000
And I always broke her arm.
630
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,600
And she looked at me like, what did you do?
631
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,480
I said, what the heck did you do?
632
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,880
You don't grab someone's throat.
633
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,840
Who's had a trach?
634
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,520
So when I look back on it, it can be amusing.
635
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:47,960
So anyway, while on this journey of death and the very vivid experience of what I saw,
636
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,960
and again, I don't have to prove anything to anybody.
637
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,320
You can believe it or not, but I know what I saw.
638
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,200
But I know it's all biblical.
639
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,400
And to discuss that with two of the bishops, two of the three bishops, who actually give
640
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,400
me last rites.
641
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,720
So I had the last rites for three bishops, knowing that I was going to die.
642
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:11,320
One nurse on Friday went home and said goodbye to me, because she knew I wouldn't be there
643
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,760
Monday.
644
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,960
When she came back for a Monday shift, she told my wife this, she was astonished to
645
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:18,960
see me alive.
646
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,680
She was still there because I shouldn't have been.
647
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,600
I lost 68 pounds.
648
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,600
I had a trach.
649
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,200
I had both lungs punctured to let the water out of the lungs.
650
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,000
I had sepsis, myrsa, 100% oxygen for three weeks.
651
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,960
My lungs are still damaged from that.
652
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,880
I had total organ failure.
653
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,760
My liver, kidneys and everything, all major organs have stopped working.
654
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,760
I was out of here.
655
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,560
And somehow, like Lazarus, I was brought back to life.
656
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,520
So that's not the end of it.
657
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,520
So when I came to, after three weeks, I came to, and I saw my wife.
658
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,520
I thought, who's that?
659
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,840
Who are you?
660
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,840
My daughter walked into it.
661
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,040
I recognized her, and I didn't recognize my wife.
662
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Looking back on it, I could have had such fun with it.
663
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,280
Margie, they were having fun with me because they were going to decorate the room for
664
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,040
Christmas, thinking I was going to be in there for a few days and I wake up and, oh, it's
665
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,360
Christmas already.
666
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,960
And then Christmas was almost there.
667
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,320
So they decorated my room for my birthday, messing with me.
668
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:20,000
But when I came to, it wasn't decorated anymore because they realized, this is not funny.
669
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,000
He's dying.
670
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:27,560
So Eric, when I came to, I remember seeing her, and then I passed out for, I think,
671
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,560
another two days.
672
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:35,240
When I came to the second time, I saw two white coats and about eight or nine bodies
673
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:36,240
around these white coats.
674
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:39,680
And because I've been in heaven, I thought they were angels, you know?
675
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,440
I'm thinking, okay, and then I realized that they were doctors.
676
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,440
Then I realized that the people without white coats were students, and they were looking
677
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,440
at me.
678
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,720
And I could hear them talking, mumbling, and I wasn't making sense.
679
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:54,800
And then I said, doctor, do you remember E.F.
680
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:55,800
Hutton?
681
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
682
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:01,440
So when E.F. Hutton talks, everybody pays attention.
683
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,480
So I said, doctor, they all pulled in.
684
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,720
Yeah, and he listens.
685
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:06,720
Yeah, they all listen.
686
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:07,720
And they all pay attention.
687
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:09,800
They're looking at me, but why are they talking?
688
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,560
He's been in the coming three, and he's talking.
689
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,360
What's he going to say?
690
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,920
And I heard myself say, I didn't think it, Eric.
691
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,560
I heard myself say, doctor, will I be able to play the piano again?
692
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,200
And very seriously, he said, oh, yes, no problems.
693
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,200
You'll be fine.
694
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,600
And then I said, well, that was funny.
695
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,520
I couldn't play it before I was sick.
696
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,520
Good one.
697
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,520
Yeah, they died.
698
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:33,520
They died.
699
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,480
They were crying real after.
700
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,240
And then I passed out again.
701
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,800
The weird thing was, I heard myself say it.
702
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,880
I didn't think it.
703
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,800
You know, when we speak, well, maybe I'm not thinking now, but I'm more obviously, because
704
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,200
I think I hope I'm making sense.
705
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,640
But when I said that, I knew that I was okay, and they did too.
706
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,640
It was a big relief.
707
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,640
He's not nuts.
708
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,240
He hasn't suffered any brain damage, but he's still got a sense of humor.
709
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:00,240
Well, it was wrong.
710
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:07,000
He was God gave me a new sense of humor to know that, you know, to have joy, to enjoy
711
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,640
this life.
712
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,600
The greatest medicine is laughter.
713
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,720
Laughter is the greatest medicine.
714
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:16,080
And, you know, since then, I have to be very careful, particularly when the bishop's around
715
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,080
to tell my humor.
716
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,200
Well, I agree with you about joy and laughter.
717
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,200
They go hand in hand.
718
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,880
They're the greatest medicine.
719
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,120
I have a truckload of questions.
720
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,960
I didn't want to interrupt you as we were going.
721
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,840
These are in no apparent order, but one that really jumps out to me.
722
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,880
I've interviewed quite a few people who have seen Jesus during their NDE.
723
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,720
None of them have seen him on the cross.
724
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:48,440
Why do you think, and I know you have to speculate, but why do you think that's how you saw him?
725
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,280
Nobody's asking that question.
726
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:59,240
I think, well, years later, I was speaking in north or south Carolina in a very large
727
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:01,160
church about 500 people.
728
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:07,400
And before the service, before my talk, well, it was a series of talks, before the program
729
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,120
began, it was a weekend program.
730
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,200
I got on my knees and I closed my eyes.
731
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,760
And I again saw Jesus on the cross.
732
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:15,760
And you know what?
733
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:16,760
I've never connected these two together.
734
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,760
Thank you.
735
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,760
Never thought of that.
736
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,000
So I closed my eyes and I see Jesus hanging on the cross.
737
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:29,920
So I look at Jesus and he says, pick up that ladder and put it up against me.
738
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,320
I want to talk to you.
739
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:38,760
So I said, the guards, the Roman soldiers will stop me.
740
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,320
They said, no, they want a tea break.
741
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,320
I thought, tea break?
742
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:42,320
Tea wasn't invented.
743
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,800
I mean, this is the sense of humor in it, you know, that's still after.
744
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,480
And then he said, climb up the ladder, which I did.
745
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,480
Leaning against the cross.
746
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,560
There was blood, there were flies, there was extra mint.
747
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,920
It was nasty.
748
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:03,240
And I got up to him and he said, I want you to use your shoulder under my shoulder.
749
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:04,240
I'm dry.
750
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:05,240
I'm suffocating.
751
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:06,800
I need to talk to you.
752
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,600
So I put my shoulder under his, I lifted him up.
753
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,480
His face is right here.
754
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,880
And then he said, I want you to see what I see.
755
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,120
And then the vision stopped.
756
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,560
And I want to show you, I want to show you this picture.
757
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,320
It was painted by a friend of mine who, when I told her the story, that's what it looked
758
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,840
like.
759
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,120
And it was like the last breath of Christ on the cross.
760
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,600
You could see the air coming out of it.
761
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,320
And there was one bit of red, one bit of color on its forehead.
762
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:38,160
And that's like what I saw in this vision before giving this talk.
763
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,600
And that was it.
764
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,240
So for those that are listening to the Audio Only podcast, which is the majority of our
765
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:46,920
stories, explain the picture.
766
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,520
It's a painting of Christ on the cross.
767
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,200
His hair, you can see the crown of thorns.
768
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,680
His hair is out.
769
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,320
You can see his face downcast.
770
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:57,640
His eyes are closed.
771
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,840
You can see the air coming out of his mouth.
772
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:00,840
His last breath.
773
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,840
There's no color.
774
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,840
It's almost like a silhouette.
775
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:03,840
Yeah.
776
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:04,840
Yeah, it is.
777
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,840
It is a silhouette.
778
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,800
There's one bit of color above his forehead, one drop of blood.
779
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,200
And this was painted for me by this woman who read this story.
780
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,080
Yeah, I was going to say I've never seen that painting.
781
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,080
It's beautiful.
782
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,280
No, you wouldn't have seen it because this is the vision.
783
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,280
Yeah.
784
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,280
Yeah, it's incredible.
785
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:24,280
And it really says a lot.
786
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:25,280
Doesn't it?
787
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,280
And that's the original, by the way.
788
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,200
So, ha, I mean, she captured what I saw lifting up Christ.
789
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,280
I want you to see what I see.
790
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:39,520
So what I thought that meant was I want you to look at the view from the cross.
791
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Now, in all the paintings we see, see of Jesus on the cross, it's on the front, right?
792
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,880
Have you ever seen a painting from the view of Christ from behind the cross?
793
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,920
No, we call that a POV.
794
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:51,920
His point of view.
795
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,920
Yes, exactly.
796
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,080
Yes, his point of view.
797
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,080
Exactly.
798
00:39:55,080 --> 00:40:02,440
So, his point of view was he was outside the city, as it says, the Green Hill far away.
799
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,200
And I thought he meant he wanted me to see the topography, the geography.
800
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,920
And a few people stand his mother and his brothers standing below him, you know.
801
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:11,920
That's what I thought.
802
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,920
And that was the end of the vision.
803
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,680
So, I go downstairs, a little nervous as I always am before talking.
804
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,160
And I go and they do happy clapping music, blah, blah, you know, all that lovely stuff.
805
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,200
And then I'm introduced and then I get up and I wasn't planning on saying this, but
806
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,880
I heard myself say, I just had a vision and I told him the vision, told him what I just
807
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,320
told you.
808
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,920
And then I realized what he meant.
809
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:34,920
I want you to see what I see.
810
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,640
It wasn't the view of the cross.
811
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,440
It's these 500 people who are attending.
812
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:47,360
I want you to see the pain, the sorrow, the grief, the despair, the worry, the anxiety,
813
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:48,720
the fear.
814
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:55,200
And I looked at everybody individually, knowing that Christ wanted me to see their pain.
815
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:02,400
So having seen Jesus on the cross in the near death, in my experience of the coma, but now
816
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,480
I was seeing Him for real, but then I realized, you know what, I'd never put those two together
817
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,920
until now, all these years later.
818
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:11,920
It's extraordinary.
819
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:12,920
Thank you.
820
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,280
You're very welcome.
821
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,720
I have a ton of other questions.
822
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:19,120
We're going to run out of time before we get to that.
823
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,360
But so I'm going to go kind of quickly through a few of them.
824
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,680
I think it's fascinating when people tell me about the colors that they saw there.
825
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,040
How else would you describe the colors?
826
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,120
You mentioned grass, granite, things like that.
827
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,320
Did they feel, were they just brighter colors than you normally see here?
828
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,000
How would you explain them?
829
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,920
Far brighter, far more real.
830
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,720
I mean, just the fact that I looked at one blade of grass for ages, you don't look at
831
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:49,480
one blade of grass when you look at the field.
832
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,320
You look at the entire field, collective.
833
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:59,240
It was as if God was showing me what I'd been missing in the natural.
834
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:04,600
And for me, that blade of grass is also being translated to being a person, to pay attention
835
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,400
to that person or that one blade of grass.
836
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,600
But can I describe why?
837
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,600
I have no idea.
838
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,600
I don't know.
839
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,120
I mean, one could say, was it all medically induced by the drugs they gave me to knock
840
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,120
me out?
841
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,120
I don't know.
842
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,120
But everything I had was all biblical and all Christ-centered, everything on it.
843
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,360
And that's where the bishops, in debriefing, they were amazed at what I had to say as
844
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,360
I was.
845
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:28,360
Yeah.
846
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,000
I'm glad they accepted it okay.
847
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,360
Yeah, oh yeah.
848
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,880
Because I've talked to a lot of people that went to their clergy after their experience
849
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,960
and were told negative things, like that's of the devil or something like that.
850
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,120
That's very unfortunate.
851
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,440
Can I apologize on behalf of the clergy who don't know?
852
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,760
I've been in the healing ministry, I've been praying for people for 34 years.
853
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,800
And sadly, the Bible, Jesus said, preach the kingdom, heal the sick.
854
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,400
And I often ask clergy, are you preaching the kingdom?
855
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:00,400
Yes.
856
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,400
Are you healing the sick?
857
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:02,400
No.
858
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,400
Why not?
859
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,200
Sadly, this is not taught in seminary.
860
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:11,840
Sadly, this POV is not taught, is not telling the line.
861
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,040
But it is in the Bible when Paul says, I know a man who was caught up to the Third Heaven,
862
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:21,480
whether in body or out of body, that's not taught in seminary because the view is freaky.
863
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,080
So I want to take a moment to apologize on behalf of the church, on behalf of clergy
864
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,720
who've rejected you for your very real experience.
865
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:32,120
I know we can only tell people we trust these stories.
866
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,840
And here am I, you know, this is 2009.
867
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,520
This is, I wasn't good at math, this is several years later as I'm telling the story and writing
868
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:40,680
this book.
869
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,960
But again, it's my story and I know what I saw.
870
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:50,520
But the goal, no, solid goal, my personal point of view is the fact that I would love
871
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,720
to see people have no fear of death anymore.
872
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:57,480
Because we don't need to be overridden by that in our daily life.
873
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,920
We don't need to think, oh God, I'm going to be in a car crash today.
874
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,320
Oh God, am I going to make it to the end of the day?
875
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,720
Is this sickness, is this disease going to kill me?
876
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:09,000
Living in fear, that's not the goal of life.
877
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,040
We are to love God, love our neighbors as ourselves and to enjoy life.
878
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,040
So I'm preaching.
879
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,040
I apologize.
880
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,680
Well, and the love and the joy that you're talking about is an opposite emotion to fear.
881
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:20,680
Yeah, absolutely.
882
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,440
So if we can get rid of that fear, we can better experience the joy.
883
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,440
Thank you.
884
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:27,680
Yeah, you should be ordained yourself.
885
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:28,680
You got it.
886
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,920
You got that sort of thought about it, to be kind.
887
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,760
Hear me with another question.
888
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,240
The description of your house was really cool.
889
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,880
You also mentioned the term mansions.
890
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,840
And in the Bible, if I remember right, Jesus talks about mansions and I go to prepare a
891
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,440
place for you.
892
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,400
Can you put that all together for me from what you learned there?
893
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:53,400
Absolutely.
894
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,600
In my father's house, there are many mansions and I go before you to prepare a place.
895
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,560
And I know that I was supposed to see these Victorian houses.
896
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:01,560
No people.
897
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,480
Funny enough, they were connected by trains.
898
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,480
I didn't see cars.
899
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,360
But they had these little trains.
900
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,720
I used to have a toy train set, you know.
901
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:10,720
So I love trains.
902
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:11,720
So that's what I saw.
903
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:17,800
So yeah, it was as if he really wanted me to see the reality that we do have places prepared
904
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:18,800
for us.
905
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:24,680
And as I was about to say, my house, the room I was in in the ICU for nearly three months
906
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,000
was room number one.
907
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,960
And when I started to come to, I was transferred from one to room eight.
908
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,360
And then I forgot to mention that the eight on my house was tilted sideways.
909
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,600
I was ultralighted on that right.
910
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,080
Like a infinity.
911
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Bingo.
912
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,600
That's right.
913
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,760
So the irony was I was taken from room number one, which was very public.
914
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,120
But no lights, my wife wanted me to get back into the circadian rhythm and to have a light
915
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,960
around me and move me into room number eight.
916
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,320
So whenever I see the infinity sign, it's like, okay, yeah, that was the number of my
917
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,080
house in heaven, infinity.
918
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,240
Okay.
919
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:06,680
This next question people are going to think isn't very important, but I'm curious.
920
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:07,680
Okay.
921
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,600
You said, you talked about drinking the water and it could taste like anything that you
922
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,840
thought of.
923
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:20,120
You also said that we don't need to eat in heaven, but can we eat in heaven if we choose
924
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,320
to?
925
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,520
I can't say yes or no.
926
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,200
From what I experienced, I assume yes.
927
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,880
Does this say in the Bible anything about eating in heaven?
928
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:30,880
I have no idea.
929
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:31,880
I don't think it does.
930
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,760
No, but Jesus came back and ate after his resurrection.
931
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:36,760
He did.
932
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:37,760
Yes.
933
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,320
But he was back in, he was out of body and now he's in body again.
934
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:41,840
But do we need to eat in heaven?
935
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:42,840
I don't think so.
936
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,200
I wouldn't think so either, but that's okay.
937
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,520
We don't need to know the answer to some of those kinds of things.
938
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,200
But we will know the answer at some point, but not to be afraid of that answer.
939
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,200
Another question.
940
00:46:54,200 --> 00:47:00,960
You talked about the feeling of when your spirit left your body in the hospital and
941
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:01,960
went up.
942
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,560
Do you have any memory of coming back into your body?
943
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,520
No, none whatsoever.
944
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:15,200
Again, chronologically, I know the leaving the body, the steps, the flowers, the house.
945
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,480
I know that chronologically was in order.
946
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,160
I never thought of that either.
947
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:25,400
I've never thought about it and I have no recollection at all until I open my eyes and
948
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,440
saw my wife and then realized who she was.
949
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,640
But then that funnier thing with the doctors, they just, why on earth would that happen
950
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,640
after three weeks?
951
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,640
That's true.
952
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,240
That's probably the last thing they expected to happen.
953
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:41,240
Haha.
954
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:42,240
Yeah.
955
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:43,240
All right.
956
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:46,440
I promised that we would come back to this and I wanted to give you an opportunity to
957
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:54,400
talk about a beautiful death experience because you, in your role, your calling, you have
958
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,240
the opportunity to deal with people when they're in their final hours.
959
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:00,640
What would you like to tell us about that?
960
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,680
I have two, but the shortest one was a man in my church.
961
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,400
His father was dying.
962
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,040
He had Alzheimer's.
963
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,720
He had a pacemaker, but it was time.
964
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:13,160
He hadn't spoken for three weeks.
965
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,480
He had said no words for three weeks.
966
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:20,200
They turned his pacemaker off because it would fight his natural death.
967
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:25,560
When I went to see him with his son, I stood sideways leaning against the wall.
968
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,160
His son was to my left.
969
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:33,160
This man's body was in the fetal position with a really scrunched up face fighting.
970
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,600
And I prayed for him, I did last rites over him.
971
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:41,400
Yeah, makes me emotional thinking about it.
972
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,880
When I finished the prayer and blessed him, he opened his eyes and he turned and looked
973
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,080
at me, not his son, looked directly at me and said, thank you.
974
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:52,080
And went, bomb.
975
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,680
And I said to his son, I think he just passed.
976
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,680
And when the nurse came in and checked his pulse and he was dead.
977
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:00,680
Beautiful death.
978
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:01,680
Thank you.
979
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,560
I was not speaking for three weeks.
980
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,200
The other one is a bit longer.
981
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,680
I'd love to tell you this story if we can squeeze it in.
982
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:08,680
Go ahead.
983
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:17,320
So I was a lay chaplain for a brand new facility, a rehab facility.
984
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:18,320
So I knew the staff.
985
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:19,400
I've been there as they're building it.
986
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,440
I was there for the opening.
987
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,960
And the first week they had on the first Sunday that it had been opened, they had an imminent
988
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,720
death of one of the people at the facility.
989
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,680
So they called and left a message on Sunday.
990
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,920
They called me because they couldn't find a real clergyman because I wasn't ordained
991
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:38,920
at that point.
992
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,920
But they knew that as a lay chaplain, they wanted me to come in.
993
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:42,920
I came in.
994
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:44,560
I went to the nurse's station, Eric.
995
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,480
They said, where's, I don't remember his name, it'll come to me.
996
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,520
And they said he's in the room, down the room, whatever it was.
997
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:52,520
And I went down.
998
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:53,520
I barged into the room.
999
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,680
It was full of people, probably 15 people at least.
1000
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:02,640
I went up to Harry, I went up to Harry, who was a bag of bones, who's 92 or 96.
1001
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:03,840
He was just a bag of bones.
1002
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:04,840
His skin was hanging.
1003
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,480
That was sad, you know.
1004
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,960
And when I walked in, I started praying in the name of Jesus.
1005
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,360
And when I finished praying, I thought the wife came up to me and said, you didn't ask
1006
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:16,360
what religion we are.
1007
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,400
And I thought, oh my God, you know, the guy's Jewish.
1008
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,200
And I really put my foot in it.
1009
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,440
You know, I was so embarrassed.
1010
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:27,800
And she said that two weeks before they were in hospital, and a clergy person, I don't
1011
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,840
know what denomination, walked past his bed to the next person, started praying for this
1012
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,320
guy, realized he was not of the same religion, slammed his prayer book or Bible together
1013
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,520
and stormed out on the rage.
1014
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,320
And she said, thank you that you just came in and did what you did without even thinking.
1015
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,120
Whilst this was happening, everybody left.
1016
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,240
I was told him to his wife, lovely lady.
1017
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:50,560
I heard the death rattle.
1018
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:51,800
I knew it was time.
1019
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,480
And I said, we need to go and pray for Harry now.
1020
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,280
I stood on his right side.
1021
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,880
She stood on the left, put my hand on his forehead, held his hand, and I asked God to
1022
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:02,880
take him home.
1023
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,040
I said, it's time, Harry.
1024
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,280
It's time to go home.
1025
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:12,880
Now, his left hand, both hands, he was just literally, what, I watched his left hand go
1026
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,800
up in the air.
1027
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,800
You could see light through his radius and all that.
1028
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,240
He hadn't eaten for weeks.
1029
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:21,840
And his hand just kept going and kept going and kept going and kept going.
1030
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:22,840
And I'm looking at his hand.
1031
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,360
His wife was looking at his hand.
1032
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,680
I'd asked God to take him home by the hand, literally.
1033
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:28,680
And there it was.
1034
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:29,680
It was happening.
1035
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,720
And he spat up and went, there was death.
1036
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:35,960
Beautiful death, beautiful death.
1037
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,640
I ministered to that family for two and a half hours afterwards.
1038
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:39,640
They were so broken.
1039
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,240
The guy was 92, 96.
1040
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:42,240
It's okay.
1041
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:43,240
It's okay to die.
1042
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:44,240
They were so broken.
1043
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:45,240
They were wailing.
1044
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:49,120
And when I left, his little wife, little lady, I wish I could remember her name.
1045
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,880
I know she came up to me and hung on to me like this, with her hands, looking up to me
1046
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:53,880
in all innocence.
1047
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,720
And she said, Nigel, I hope you're there when I die.
1048
00:51:58,720 --> 00:51:59,960
And what a gift that was.
1049
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:01,480
I hope you're there when I die.
1050
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,560
And I said, I probably won't be, but I know who will be.
1051
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,920
I watched this man go to heaven.
1052
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,520
And I have many other stories too.
1053
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,840
The combat ones are horrific.
1054
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,520
But this is very real.
1055
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:12,720
This is not a dress rehearsal.
1056
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:17,200
And I hope, as sharing my prayer, my story, again, I have nothing to prove, but I want
1057
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,480
to remind you that please don't you live your life in fear.
1058
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,480
Don't do that.
1059
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,480
It's a total waste of time.
1060
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,400
We're going to die at some point.
1061
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,760
But why should we live our lives in fear?
1062
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:28,760
Thank you, Father Nigel.
1063
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,880
I really appreciate your time.
1064
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,280
I hope we can do this again sometime.
1065
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:34,280
I'd love to.
1066
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,280
I'm here.
1067
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,840
And if it can help anybody and they want to talk to me, I'm here.
1068
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:39,840
Bless you.
1069
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:40,840
Thank you for what you do.
1070
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,760
I really appreciate this.
1071
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,200
I wish more people were doing this.
1072
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,200
And I bless you.
1073
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,200
I pray for great success.
1074
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,080
I pray that thousands of people will be listening to your podcast.
1075
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,480
Listen, I want to close with two words.
1076
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,480
It's not our man.
1077
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:54,480
That's one word.
1078
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:55,560
I want to close with two words.
1079
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:56,560
Have fun.
1080
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:57,560
Okay.
1081
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:58,560
Enjoy your life.
1082
00:52:58,560 --> 00:52:59,560
I'll end it there.
1083
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,280
Enjoy your life, all right?
1084
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,200
Thank you.
1085
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,240
And I want to thank you so very much for listening.
1086
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:11,880
Right now, while you're thinking of it, please hit that subscribe or follow button.
1087
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:16,620
And if you want to know when the new episodes go live, go over to roundtripdeath.com and
1088
00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:19,400
sign up for our email newsletter.
1089
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:48,920
Until then, I wish you every good thing that you're looking for in this life and the next.
