Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome, welcome everybody to Round Trip Death and a special welcome to our, oh, I'm going
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to call him famous, whatever, our very special guest Howard Storm.
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How are you Howard?
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Okay.
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Let me tell you a little bit about myself.
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I was born in 1946.
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I like to think I was one of the first things I did when my father came back from the Pacific
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during World War II.
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I grew up in a very dysfunctional family.
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My father was extremely abusive every day, physically, emotionally.
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My mother was very loving kind and extremely passive.
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At the age 15, I had a long talk with my pastor because I was seriously thinking of going
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into the ministry when he explained what Christianity really was about, which was, with his Harvard
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University understanding Christianity was about myths and superstitions and fairy tales.
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I walked out of that meaning knowing that I was not going to have anything to do with
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church, religion, God, Jesus ever again.
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I quickly became an existentialist under the influence of Jean-Paul Sartre and Albert
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Camus and Martin Heidegger, et cetera.
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I stayed that way up until my near-death experience on June 1, 1985.
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I had become an art professor in 1972, had a wife, two kids, a nice home, two cars, and
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was living the American dream in totally self-centered, aid type personality, obsessed with my career,
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my success, and hopefully ultimately my fame as an artist.
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Well the American dream, all right.
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Well Howard, thanks for telling us about you.
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I'm going to interject some more because I know you're too humble to talk about it, but
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you are very well known in the near-death experience community.
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You've been in films, documentaries, you've written how many books now?
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I've just published my fifth book and I'm working on five more with my publisher in
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England.
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And what's your newest book called?
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My new book is called Following Jesus, The Way, The Truth, and the Life.
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Sounds beautiful.
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I just for fun went on YouTube and looked at a couple of your videos and by total random,
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I'm going to read you some comments that are on there, okay?
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Because again, I know you're a little too humble to do this.
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Here you go.
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Here's from someone named Anthony.
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Love you, Howard Storm.
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I will never forget you.
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Listen to your stories over and over.
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I'm following the Lord much more closely and it's because of you.
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Well, that's very gratifying.
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Here's another one.
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Just ordered your new book, Mr. Storm.
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You've made a huge impact on my life.
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Thank you and I love you.
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Your words made me just melt.
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Okay, I know you're getting embarrassed, but you're going to get a couple more.
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Well, I'll just end with this one because this is the best.
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This is all capital letters.
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It says, I love, love, love you, Howard Storm.
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You've made a big impact on a lot of people.
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I appreciate you being on with me today.
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If you don't mind, let's go back to 1985, that day that you were talking about.
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Now you had decided not to become clergy.
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Were you, would you consider yourself more of an atheist or agnostic or where did you
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fit in that whole thing?
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Well, I was a very hardcore atheist.
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And all, I was a professor at the university and all of my friends were hardcore atheists,
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too.
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And one of our favorite topics at one and two o'clock in the morning after consuming
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several pictures of beer was to talk about how stupid and delusional religious people
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were.
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And let me narrow that down.
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We didn't ridicule Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims.
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We never talked about them.
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Our target of our ridicule was Christians.
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Seems to happen a lot, doesn't it?
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Okay, what happened on that day in 1985?
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What led up to your NDE?
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I'm going to give you a really short version.
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At 11 o'clock in the morning, I had a perforation of the duodham in simple English, a hole through
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my small stomach, which took me to the ground in the worst pain I had ever experienced in
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my life.
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My wife called, we were at the hotel.
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My wife called the desk.
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They got an emergency doctor who came very quickly and knew exactly what was wrong.
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Said he was going to call an ambulance because I needed to have surgery within an hour or
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I would die.
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The ambulance came, took me to the big city hospital in Paris, the hospital general, the
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assistant public, de Paris, and examined by two very nice doctors.
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An emergency told me the exact same thing.
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That doctor that had been in the hotel said rushed me over to the surgical hospital where
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I was parked because unbeknownst to me and unbeknownst to the doctor's emergency.
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Because it was a Saturday, which there's a French technical term for that, it's le
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weekend.
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Do you want me to translate that into English for you?
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Le weekend?
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No, I think we got it.
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Oh, good.
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But I assume what that meant was a lot of medical staff weren't there.
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Yeah, if you had the money and could get out of Paris for the weekend and had a nice little
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country place, that's where you went.
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Anyways, I was parked on a bed.
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I was not technically admitted to that hospital.
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I was under no doctor care and I was left there for 10 hours.
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I never saw a doctor once an hour.
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Our nurse would come in and come to the room and ask me how I was doing.
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I would tell her in my poor French that I was dying and she would shrug her shoulders
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and leave.
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An hour later she'd come back and same question, same response.
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The pain that I experienced at the hotel got worse and worse and worse.
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Breathing became almost impossible.
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The American doctor I've talked to ever since that experience told me that my life expectancy
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was about two hours.
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The American doctors always use this weird word that had not been part of my vocabulary
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was it's a miracle you're alive because that night nurse came into the room and said they
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were unable to find a doctor and they were trying to get one the next day, which would
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have been Sunday and left the room.
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I made my goodbyes to my wife and told her that I was going to die now.
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I closed my eyes and went unconscious.
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I had a very extensive near death experience which began with a group of people taking
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me to L and tearing me apart.
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In desperation my mind went back to my childhood, Sunday school, singing Jesus Loves Me.
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I called out to Jesus to save me.
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He came, he took me out of there.
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I had a life review and then when that was over he invited me to ask questions.
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We spent the next several years together where he taught me a lot of stuff.
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When I say several years, that's not accurate because there's no time outside of this world.
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The time that we have in this world is linear time.
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It's what we know in God's world.
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Time is without measure and one can move through time at will past, present, and future.
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Anyways, that's a whole long another story.
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At the end of my graduate degree with my best friend in the whole world who goes by the
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name of Jesus, also known in Hebrew, Yeshua, I said that I want to go to heaven and he
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said no you don't have the character to fit in heaven, you've got to go back into this
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world and try and live the way that God created you to live.
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We had a big argument.
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He won the argument and sent me back when I came back.
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The nurse who had been in the room earlier said there was no doctor that night, said
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a doctor has arrived and I had that surgery 10 o'clock that night.
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I just want to conclude this with when I woke from the surgery that morning, I knew that
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the most important thing in my life had happened to me.
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I knew that it was more real, far more real than what we call reality.
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Life changing and all I could think about that morning was where do I begin?
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What do I do?
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And so that's what I've been working on for almost 40 years.
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What do I do?
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How do I live a way that's more pleasing to God?
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To put it quite simply, my goal is to live a life pleasing to God.
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The good news is I'm not alone in this.
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I have my buddy Jesus with me all the time and the way that he's with me all the time,
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it's called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ.
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So we are in touch all the time, every day, and I rely upon connecting with the Spirit
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of Christ to both guide me and also to correct me when I screw up, which I do.
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Don't we all?
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If you don't mind, Howard, I want to go back and ask you some questions to fill in a lot
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of details back here along the way.
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So first of all, and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, but give us a little
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more description of what this hellish experience was and who was tearing you apart.
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Okay.
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They were people.
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I never met a demon.
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People always want to ask me about the demons.
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I never saw any demons.
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Let me just do a quick aside here.
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I had an experience of hell.
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Hell is vast and there is unlimited variety of hellish experiences.
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I've talked to many, many people who have had hellish experiences.
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None of us who've had hellish experiences want to talk about them.
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They're traumatic.
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I had a good friend who is a psychiatrist and he told me one time that I was suffering
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from PTSD from my hellish experience and that he wanted to do therapy with me to help me
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overcome that PTSD and we did it and it was very, very helpful by the way.
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I don't want anybody, anybody to ever experience what I did.
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They took me on a long journey to this group of people that seduced me out of my hospital
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room and took me into an ever increasing darkness which ultimately became complete total darkness
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and I was terrified of them because I was becoming very aware that they were very cruel
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people.
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I said, I'm not going with you any further and with that we got into a big fight and
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I tried to resist them but there were a lot of them, many, many of them and obviously
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they had their way with me and it degenerated from kicking and punching to ripping, gouging,
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tearing, biting, clawing which degenerated into invasive things and that's where I stopped
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because I have never told and I will never tell ever what they did to me.
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The point was they did everything they could to demean me and left me on the ground of
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that place unable to move which is when eventually I called upon Jesus out of desperation.
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Well, thank you for sharing.
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I know that was hard.
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I'm trying to understand how an atheist calls on Jesus.
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Is it because of that point of desperation?
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Do you think?
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How would you describe that now?
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Well let me preface this with a little Bible quote.
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The Bible says in four different places, anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall
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be saved and if you look up that scripture there's no if ands, buts, maybes.
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It's just laid in there that simple and plain.
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I think that it's really important.
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It means sincerely when calling upon Jesus is like, hey Jesus if you're not too busy
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if you're just hanging out, hey drop by sometime.
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Not like that.
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It's desperation.
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It's got to be right from the heart and I really believe that if anyone does that, really
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does it from their heart.
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He's going to respond.
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My call was Jesus saved me.
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Pretty simple prayer, right?
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He did.
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He not just saved me.
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He gave me a whole new life.
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That was like I said almost 40 years ago.
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I started going to church.
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I became a pastor.
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I served churches for 30 years.
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All right books about it.
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I do YouTube.
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I do interviews like this one.
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I always try to respond to every email I get with people's questions.
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I have a website.
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There's a connect on there and I welcome anyone that would like to write me or ask me something
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or share something with me.
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I make myself available and that's my life.
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Okay.
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My next question is back to the life review.
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I hear different stories on what those were like.
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Tell me what yours was like.
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Well, I've talked to a lot of people who've had near death experiences and people that
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have had extensive near death experiences have had a life review.
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Now they may differ a little bit.
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The life review is truth.
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It's not our memory of our life.
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Our life was recorded and I'm not talking about a book.
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I'm talking about the full audio visual plus.
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One thing you'll hear from a lot of people that had a life review is that the impact
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that they've had on the people that they've interacted with, they also get to know.
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Let me just give you one simple example.
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My mother, I was her only son and I was the apple of her eye and they showed me how much
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I hurt my mother by being such a rebellious child.
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The last thing in the world I ever wanted to do was to hurt my mom but I'm running away
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from home at the age of 15 showing up three months later.
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That kind of stuff really hurt her.
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I never really appreciated how much pain I caused my dear mom.
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Jesus did a lot in my life review showing me why my father was the very screwed up,
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extremely narcissistic, cruel man that he was.
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It was because of his upbringing.
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Jesus wanted me to understand why my father was the way I was and it was Jesus's hope
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that somehow I could be reconciled with my father when I came back into this world, which
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to a certain degree I was.
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The life review is not punishment.
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It's not like a courtroom trial.
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You're simply confronted with the truth of the good and the bad and the indifferent that
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you did with your life.
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You've had a lot of years to think about this now.
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I'm going to ask you to speculate on some things.
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Give me your opinion on some things.
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One is why a life review?
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If it's not like a court, it's not like you're guilty or you're not guilty.
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What is the purpose of it?
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Question.
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God's love is not punitive.
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God loves us.
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God's love is rehabilitative.
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Now I have to add this.
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People will naturally go to the question if God's love is to bring us to heaven and rehabilitate
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us, which let me put this in a little more religious terms.
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God's love is for our ultimate total sanctification so that we can be in heaven forever.
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Why does God have that alternate place to heaven known as hell?
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And the reason is very simple.
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People get what is in their heart.
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If your heart has chosen a rejection of God, you get to reject God.
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You get to go to a place where God doesn't rule.
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Matter of fact, none of the goodness of God is there at all.
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People rule.
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Unfortunately, those people degenerate into the worst of human behavior.
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They live to torment one another.
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There's no light down there.
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There's no birds.
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There's no food.
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There's no joy.
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And most importantly, there's no hope.
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What happens to those people in hell?
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It would be wonderful if they all hit that point of desperation, total rejection of their
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mental construct of being angry and hating the God that they say doesn't exist.
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They would call upon Jesus.
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I would like to think that if they did that, Jesus would come and take them out of there.
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The people that I met in hell were not interested in calling upon Jesus or God and made it very
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clear to me that they knew there was no God in the most vulgar ways.
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So people get what they choose.
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If you choose God, God is going to help you find the way.
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If you choose Jesus, Jesus is going to help you find the way.
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And that's what I wrote this.
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Well, all my books are about that more or less, but the recent one is very directly about
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what it means to choose Jesus and follow his way.
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I hope that the stuff that I'm putting out there, whether it's a YouTube or an interview
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or a book or whatever, my ministry of 30 years, I hope that I have been helpful in people
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making that choice because I know that rejecting God is a choice and seeking God is a choice.
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I know this sounds simple, but that's it, baby.
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You've got one or two choices.
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It's a simple binary choice that you have to make, one or the other.
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Jesus talking about shame and guilt.
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What did he have to say about that?
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Jesus and I talked a lot about guilt and shame, and he really despises those things because
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those are just us wallowing in things that we can be free from.
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When Jesus died on the cross, he said, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
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And he was speaking to a crowd that was mocking him, a crowd that was not only tormenting him
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with their jeers, but also the people that had whipped him almost to death with the 40
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lashes.
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He was talking to the people who nailed him to the cross, the people that were really enjoying
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watching him suffer this long, horrible death on the cross.
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You think you've done something bad?
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You're nothing compared to the people that killed Jesus.
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That was bad.
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You want bad?
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How about the people that killed Jesus because they didn't like the love that he offered the
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world?
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You take your stuff to Jesus.
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You be honest with him.
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You fess up.
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You turn your life around.
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You make a change, and you ask him to forgive you.
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And that stuff is finished.
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It's gone, and you will not see it in your life review.
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Get smart people.
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Get your life review.
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Clean it up.
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You don't have to look at the bad stuff if you don't want to.
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One other question about the life review.
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I'm a very private person, so I'm uncomfortable with the thought of my whole life being recorded.
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Why do you think it's recorded?
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I don't really understand.
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It's recorded because our memory of our life is highly inaccurate.
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It is highly colored by our emotions.
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Once let me give you an example since I used my father.
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In my mind, my father was a monster, and I was the victim of a monster.
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And one of the things that Jesus showed me was how I had contributed, which I never would
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have admitted and certainly didn't recognize, into the deterioration of our relationship.
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The crueler he was to me, the more I hated him, and the more he knew, because it was
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quite obvious that I disliked him intensely.
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So therefore he tried to impose himself more and more on me to the point where we had no
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relationship at all.
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All right, we're going to get to the part that I've been looking forward to the very,
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very, very most.
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I don't know if you can guess what that is or not, but you talked about having a question
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and answer session.
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I've got to know what some of those questions and answers were.
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Okay.
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Well, let me, can I start off with the biggie?
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I'll start off with the one that I considered the best one.
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When Jesus told me that I had to come back to this world and try and live it in a way
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that would be more consistent, which is why God created me and everyone in the first place,
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to be children of God, I said, what do you want me to do if I were to go back?
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This is when I was still pleading to go to heaven.
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He said, quote, love the person you're with.
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I said quickly and glibly, okay, got it.
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What else do you want me to do?
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And before he could answer, I started to tell him that I was going to look for a big piece
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of land out in the country and build a big, amazing shrine to him so that people would
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come from all over the world to see the shrine that I had built in Jesus.
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And he said, quote, please don't do that.
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And I said, I was shocked because I thought it was a really good idea.
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And I said, why?
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And he said, I don't need it.
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God doesn't need it.
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And I interrupted him and said, yeah, well, what about all the cathedrals and the shrines
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all over the world?
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You know, what about all those?
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And he said, those are for people.
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God doesn't need that stuff, you know?
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I don't need that stuff.
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That's for people.
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He said, I want you to love the person that you're with.
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I said to him, yeah, that's nice.
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What good will that do?
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He said, if you love the person that you're with, they may carry that love to their next
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interaction with another person, be kind and loving towards them.
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And that person might carry that out.
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And he didn't say this, but in my own words, you know, it's the ripple effect, you know,
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throw the stone in the water and the ripples go out, right?
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That's what he was trying to teach me.
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So of course, me thinking that I'm so smart and have to teach Jesus, I said, oh, that's
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not going to work.
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I said, the world's full of cruelty, lots of nasty people, you know, you do something
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loving and the next person gets slammed for it, they get discouraged and that's the end
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of it.
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And he said, we have millions of people who are trying to do this.
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I explained, yeah, well, your millions are a minority in the world and it's not going
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to work.
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He said, we have billions of angels.
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And I said, yeah, well, with your millions of people and your billions of angels, it's
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not going to work.
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That love thing's not going to work.
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Now Jesus now dropped the nuclear bomb on me.
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You ready for it?
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Eric, you ready?
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Ready.
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I'm so ready.
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He said, it's God's will.
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Well, as arrogant and ignorant as I was, I did not know how to respond to the nuclear
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bomb.
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It's God's will.
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00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,160
Oops.
400
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:20,400
That's what we call a mic drop.
401
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,880
Jesus says it's God's will, drops the mic, walks away, end of discussion.
402
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,880
Amen.
403
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:33,280
Yeah, I was dumbstruck, didn't know what to say.
404
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:39,400
It sounds like the university professor side of you was coming back out in that discussion.
405
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,760
You were trying to reason.
406
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,600
You were trying to, yeah, do all that kind of stuff.
407
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,880
I'd love to hear a couple of other questions you asked him.
408
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,800
Oh, let's see.
409
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,840
You know, I really did ask him hundreds and thousands of questions.
410
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Here's a kind of fun one.
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00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:03,240
He had told me that there was some intelligent life on other planets in our universe.
412
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And I'm not just talking about the multiverse.
413
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I'm talking about our physical universe, which of course is just one of many universes.
414
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:16,400
And he told me, oh, there's many, many.
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And I said, what do they look like?
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So he called forth a parade of alien beings beginning with ones that were human like,
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and maybe, you know, that have strange ears or noses or different colors and things like
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that.
419
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And then they started getting weirder and weirder.
420
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And then they started getting really strange.
421
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Have you ever seen photographs of very deep sea creatures?
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Yeah.
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They look like they're from another planet.
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Yeah.
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Well, these looked like people from other planets, and they were all waving and smiling at me
426
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as they went parading by.
427
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And it was kind of freaking me out.
428
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,040
So I said to Jesus, OK, OK, OK, I got it.
429
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I got it.
430
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,040
That's enough.
431
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,040
I don't want to see any more.
432
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,040
That's like, you're weird.
433
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,440
Now, I'll give you, that was sort of a fun one.
434
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,360
Another question that I asked him when we talked about what is known as the heavenly
435
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:23,480
choir, which I like to refer to as the heavenly symphony, because it's way more than just vocal.
436
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,480
What's the point?
437
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,600
I mean, obviously, they're worshiping God and they're in close proximity to God and
438
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,880
everybody's getting their major love going back and forth.
439
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:40,040
So that, that, of course, is one of the purposes known in the world as worship.
440
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:48,240
But the ultimate point is, is that the universe, and this is not, I'm going into, this is what
441
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:55,280
Jesus, Jesus told me, taught me, the universe is made up of vibrational states.
442
00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:03,040
If you look into theoretical physics, you'll find out that this is what all theoretical
443
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,120
physicists teach.
444
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,800
This is what Jesus taught me.
445
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:15,000
Choir and energy are simply forms of vibrational states.
446
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,200
Guess what the source of those vibrational states are, Eric?
447
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,600
I'm not giving you time to answer.
448
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,480
The source of those vibrational states are God and the heavenly choir.
449
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:36,040
And Jesus told me that if the heavenly choir and God were to cease, the whole universe would
450
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vanish.
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They would not be at all because they created, and not only are they creating it by sustaining
452
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what is, but also creating a new.
453
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,320
And that's one of the reasons why there's some multi-universes.
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00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:01,880
This physical universe that we know is not the only universe in existence.
455
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:07,080
And God is constantly, please don't take this as blasphemy.
456
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:13,600
God is just like this wild, crazy artist, just the most creative being, and he just
457
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loves to create.
458
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:20,440
And one of the things that he loves to create besides beautiful things and extraordinary
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00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:27,960
things like galaxies and planets and suns and habitable worlds with all kinds of interesting
460
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:36,560
life forms, he likes to create beings who actually have the capacity with the gifts
461
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:47,400
that he gives to interact with God and to become holy people and come to heaven and to participate
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00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,440
with God in the creative activity of the universe.
463
00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:02,920
I never use the term co-creator because that might imply some equality with God.
464
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:14,720
Our creative activity is under the design, control, and empowerment of God.
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We participate with God and the creation.
466
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:24,120
We are not in this no equality at all between us and God.
467
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:33,320
Quite a destiny that we will ultimately, in our process of sanctification, be in close
468
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:39,520
proximity to God participating in the creation of the universe.
469
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,520
How about that?
470
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,120
You just said God is a wild, crazy artist.
471
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,560
Sorry, when you say wild and crazy, I think of Steve Martin.
472
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,560
I'm getting away from that.
473
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:55,520
You're a wild and crazy artist, does that mean the place where you saw some really
474
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,640
cool creative things and if so describe some?
475
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:06,360
I'm going to give you a definitive description of heaven.
476
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:15,080
Everything good, everything beautiful, everything that ever was good and beautiful, everything
477
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:20,440
that is good and beautiful, everything that ever will be good and beautiful is in heaven.
478
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,600
When you talk to people that have been to heaven, and I did get a tour of heaven, by
479
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:31,000
the way, how about grass and flowers and trees that sing?
480
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,520
How do you like that puppy?
481
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,720
Everything in heaven is alive.
482
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,760
The rocks are alive in heaven.
483
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:47,480
People project what they think heaven is by their experience in this world.
484
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,760
People argue about what kind of mansion they're going to get in heaven and what kind of food
485
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,240
they're going to eat in heaven.
486
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:57,800
It's way beyond, way better than that.
487
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,280
So aren't we?
488
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,280
I got to tell you this.
489
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,280
This is a story.
490
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,440
I had a guy that sent me a bunch of emails because he wanted to know what kind of shoes
491
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,200
we were going to wear in heaven.
492
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,200
I tried to explain to him where you don't need shoes.
493
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,960
Yeah, you want to walk in that singing grass.
494
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,080
By the way, you won't hurt it.
495
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,400
It'll tickle your feet.
496
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,080
I want to go everywhere barefoot.
497
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,760
That sounds better to me.
498
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,720
So I'm glad to hear that answer.
499
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:29,200
Are there any other things that you can describe that you saw?
500
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,640
I love hearing about everything being alive and singing.
501
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:42,080
My tour of heaven, I saw incredibly beautiful mountains, wonderful oceans, lakes, forests,
502
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,920
vast plains of grass, animals.
503
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:48,920
I'm a dog lover.
504
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,640
I've had multiple dogs all my life.
505
00:36:52,640 --> 00:37:02,560
I believe, I don't know this, but I believe that somehow either the dogs that I've had
506
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:10,120
or maybe some kind of single dog that embodies all the dogs that I've had, I will be greeted
507
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,680
with them in heaven.
508
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,440
Because for me, I need a doggy in heaven.
509
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,840
Dogs are my best friends.
510
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,040
I don't mean that globally.
511
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,560
I mean, I'm quite serious.
512
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,720
I'm just crazy.
513
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:30,320
Dogs give unconditional love.
514
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:37,400
And so I believe that dogs are a gift from God to teach us unconditional love.
515
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:44,000
Now, there's horse people and cat people and bird people and lots of different.
516
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,240
But I'm a dog guy.
517
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,720
I'm going to skip ahead just a little bit and come back here.
518
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:55,520
But I'm curious after this experience, you had to have been completely changed.
519
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,160
You had to have changed your title from atheist to something else.
520
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:06,200
What was it like speaking with your wife, your colleagues back at the university, when
521
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,400
you were so different now?
522
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,160
This is not good.
523
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,120
My wife ultimately, we got divorced.
524
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,160
I mean, she left me.
525
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,520
I fought that divorce, but she didn't want to be married to me after 40 years of marriage.
526
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,440
Anyways, she hated what I had become.
527
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:33,400
But in fact, because all I wanted to do was talk about Jesus and God, and I started reading
528
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,400
the Bible.
529
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:41,560
And one of the things I did was I started memorizing scripture and reciting it to people
530
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:42,560
all the time.
531
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,960
I mean, I was a total fanatic, complete seller.
532
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:51,080
I mean, I was super obnoxious trying to get people to want to know Jesus.
533
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,800
I don't do that anymore.
534
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,320
I've really changed my style of evangelism.
535
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:04,400
Anyways, I turned her off, turned my kids off, turned my mother off.
536
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,400
And everyone that came into my room, I was in the hospital in the United States for a
537
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,640
couple months.
538
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,960
I would try the same thing and I turned them all off.
539
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,280
The word got out at the university.
540
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,320
I had some visitors or friends.
541
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,400
I would try and tell them what happened to me.
542
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,760
They would never, my best friends.
543
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,880
They would never speak to me again.
544
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,840
When they saw me coming, they would go way out of their way to avoid me.
545
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:36,080
And I lost every friend I had in the world and lost my whole family.
546
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,880
My wife, my two kids, I was all alone.
547
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:46,080
The good news was I had started going to church and I started making new friends.
548
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,840
I just want to say my Christian friends are far better friends than I ever had.
549
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,080
And I may as well tell you the unvarnished truth.
550
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:01,480
So I came home from a mission trip on the Amazon River.
551
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:08,000
And when I came home, the house, my ex-wife, my first wife of 40 years, she was an attorney.
552
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,360
When I came home from that mission trip, the house was empty and there were divorce papers
553
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,040
on the kitchen table with a note, sign this.
554
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:23,040
So we got divorced because that's what she wanted and she was not interested in trying
555
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,400
to resuscitate the marriage.
556
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,320
Now here's the really dumb part.
557
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,920
Eric, you're dealing with a major dumb head here.
558
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:38,440
Three weeks after the divorce, I got married to another woman.
559
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,960
Everybody that I talked to about my plan to marry her told me, don't do that.
560
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:43,960
It's a big mistake.
561
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,440
She's not right for you.
562
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,000
But I told myself, I'm in love.
563
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,200
They don't understand.
564
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,200
I'm in love.
565
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,320
She's the one for me.
566
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,000
It's going to be great.
567
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,720
16 years later, she walked out on me.
568
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:00,440
We got divorced.
569
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,160
So I decided that I would never date.
570
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,680
I would never marry again.
571
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,400
That lasted for over a year.
572
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,240
One morning I woke up and said, I love women.
573
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,320
What am I talking about?
574
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,880
I need a wife.
575
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,680
I need a woman.
576
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,240
It's a long story, which I don't have time to go into, but it's really incredible.
577
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,200
God thing, story.
578
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:28,200
A pastor friend of mine handed me a slip of paper and he said, here's a name and a telephone
579
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,320
number called this woman.
580
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,400
I think that this is the woman that God has planned for you.
581
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,080
And I called her.
582
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:43,480
I made a date with her to have coffee at 10 o'clock in the morning near her house.
583
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,200
We met for coffee at noon time.
584
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,600
We were falling in love.
585
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,200
And I said, are you hungry?
586
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:52,840
She said, I'm famished.
587
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,880
And I said, there's a really nice restaurant next door.
588
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,240
And she said, oh, I love that place.
589
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,760
We went next door three hours later.
590
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,200
I said, maybe you need to go home.
591
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,080
I know I got to go home and take care of my dog.
592
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,560
Can I call you tomorrow?
593
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:10,560
Can I see you tomorrow?
594
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,280
And she said, yes.
595
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:21,280
And three months later, we were talking about getting married and not too long after that.
596
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:31,040
And she is such a super Christian, such a loving, kind person and takes incredibly good
597
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:38,000
care of me because I've been through a lot of really big health crisis.
598
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,680
And she is just wonderful.
599
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,720
And everybody I know, before I can say it, says, boy, she's a gift from God.
600
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:47,040
And I said, I know that.
601
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,480
I know that.
602
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,760
I've got the most amazing wife.
603
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:55,760
And we're very happy.
604
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,640
And we've been married for well over a year now.
605
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,120
And by the way, my dog's lover.
606
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,120
Well that's important.
607
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,120
Oh, yeah.
608
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,680
And I'm not saying that sarcastically.
609
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,640
That's very important.
610
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,120
And vice versa.
611
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,120
Okay.
612
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,120
I want to hear about the process of you coming back.
613
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,880
It sounds like you got in a bit of an argument with Jesus.
614
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,480
He said you had to go back.
615
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,360
You didn't want to go.
616
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:23,440
Give me a little more detail.
617
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,440
What all happened there?
618
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:31,280
Like one of the things that I knew would be incredibly powerful argument.
619
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,720
Once I said, why would you send me back to this world?
620
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:39,200
The world is full of horrible, evil, cruel people.
621
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,640
Why would you want to put me in that world?
622
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,040
And Jesus said, that's true.
623
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:53,920
But the world is also full of loving, kind, and wonderful people.
624
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,400
And then he added this.
625
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:02,680
And I really hope that the people that are listening or seeing this podcast will pay
626
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,320
attention to this.
627
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:12,360
Jesus told me that what is in your heart is what you will find.
628
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:22,080
And then he explained, if you look for good and loving people, they will come to you in
629
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,080
your life.
630
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:31,160
If you look for cruel, rotten people, that's what you're going to find.
631
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:32,880
And you know what?
632
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:33,880
Jesus was telling the truth.
633
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,160
I have evangelizing and doing mission work been all over the world.
634
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,720
I spent a month in China.
635
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:41,160
I've been in Africa.
636
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,720
I've been in all the countries of Western Europe.
637
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:48,960
I've been in South America, Central America.
638
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:49,960
I've been all over the world.
639
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,960
And you know what I find, or that's just unbelievable?
640
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,160
Loving, kind, good people.
641
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:03,720
And you know what else I found in all of my weeks and months of traveling around the world?
642
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:10,200
I have never, ever had one bad experience, not one.
643
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,360
The good, loving, kind people are out there.
644
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:21,480
What's in your heart is what you're going to find, look for them.
645
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,600
So did you come back kind of kicking and screaming then?
646
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:31,120
Well, I just had a three hour major abdominal surgery, so I wasn't very mobile.
647
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,560
But you know, all I could think about is, how am I going to change?
648
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:37,560
What am I going to change?
649
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,720
Eric, in my opinion, the hardest thing for a person to do in this world is to change
650
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,600
themselves.
651
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:51,520
And if you talk to people in 12-step programs like AA, NA, Al-Anon, etc., they'll tell
652
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:56,840
you, you know, for people to make any kind of change in themselves, it's really, really
653
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,120
hard work, but important work.
654
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,720
So there I thought, what do I do?
655
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:03,720
What do I do?
656
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:04,720
What do I do?
657
00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:12,680
And like I said, it's been almost 40 years and I'm still trying to discover what I
658
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,920
could do better and what I've done wrong and what I've done right.
659
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,080
And that is a daily self-examination.
660
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,200
It's not like, you know, once a month or once a week, you know, every day.
661
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,040
Let me just give you a simple example.
662
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,680
I've told you what an absolutely wonderful wife I have.
663
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:33,680
I didn't tell you.
664
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,720
I also have a temper.
665
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:39,960
I don't mean to shock you, Eric.
666
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,000
Please don't turn off the video.
667
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,400
I thought you were perfect.
668
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:50,720
Now, Father Eric, I'm giving you a true confession here.
669
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:57,480
There have been occasions when I have lost my temper with my wife because obviously she
670
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:06,000
did something to make me angry and not intentionally, but you know, we're all imperfect people.
671
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,960
And I've yelled at her.
672
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:14,280
You know, the minute I do that, you know, I go, oh, damn, stupid idiot me.
673
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,200
I'm talking about me.
674
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,600
You know, she doesn't deserve that.
675
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:19,600
She doesn't need that.
676
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,800
And then I can feel that I've really hurt her.
677
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:29,480
My wife, who came from a very dysfunctional background too, she does not like to be yelled
678
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:30,600
at.
679
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,000
It hurts her really badly.
680
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:40,040
You know, obviously what I have to do is I wait a little bit, give it a little time,
681
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,240
you know, and then tell her, I'm so sorry.
682
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:44,520
Please forgive me.
683
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:50,920
You know, I just flew off, you know, I didn't mean to do that.
684
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,440
And I will really, really try not to do that kind of thing again.
685
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,520
I am working on not losing my temper.
686
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,960
But Eric, you know that sometimes, you know, you don't think.
687
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,880
You just react, bang, you know, fight or flight, right?
688
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:15,680
And those times when I yell at my wife, fortunately, I would like to report I'm doing less and
689
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,080
less of that all the time.
690
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,960
So yay for me, I'm making progress.
691
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,000
I'm trying to change that lifelong.
692
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,280
I used to be a real bully.
693
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,400
I used to be a very controlling person.
694
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:36,040
Actually my anger was highly effective in getting my way because I, you know, I was a
695
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,600
big strong guy and I could intimidate people.
696
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:44,680
Well, I don't try and intimidate anybody and I don't always try and get my own way.
697
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:50,600
And you know, when you're living with a person who's very patient and kind and caring, you
698
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:58,680
know, it's hard to really know when you're abusing their kindness, right?
699
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,960
Well, thank you for sharing that.
700
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:07,360
We're all dealing with stuff and we're certainly not perfect.
701
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,320
Let's leave this off on a high note.
702
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,240
Oh, oh, first, wait.
703
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:18,280
So I was asking about your sort of argument conversation with Jesus prior to coming back.
704
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:23,560
Was there a point where he actually gave you the choice, you know, he said, here's why
705
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:28,480
you need to go back now to your choice or were you just told you have to go back?
706
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,920
He made it really clear that I didn't have any choice in the matter.
707
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:38,400
And ultimately what he was waiting for was for me to agree with him.
708
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,520
And it took a lot of arguing for him to ultimately persuade me.
709
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,440
And what I finally said to him was, I don't want to, but I'll go back.
710
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,080
And with that, I was back.
711
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,600
So eventually it was your choice.
712
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:54,600
Yeah.
713
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,600
Or your acceptance, maybe we should say.
714
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:58,600
Yeah.
715
00:49:58,600 --> 00:49:59,600
Okay.
716
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,240
You've done a lot of good out there in the world.
717
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:08,560
And this is a tough place to live right now for a lot of people.
718
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:13,000
Can you leave everybody with some kind of a message of hope here?
719
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:22,200
God has a definite plan that this world is going to become a utopia.
720
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:32,080
The book of Revelation is so misunderstood and misrepresented by people because they
721
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:37,440
want to focus on all the gruesome images in there.
722
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:43,200
The whole point of the book, by the way, I took a class at a Catholic seminary about
723
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,200
the book of Revelation.
724
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:50,800
The whole point of the book of Revelation is ultimately the ending where God destroys
725
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:56,520
all the evil, all the evil in our world.
726
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:01,040
It's all cast and destroyed in the lake of fire.
727
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,460
And we build heaven on earth.
728
00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:12,680
As we pray in the Lord's prayer, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in
729
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:13,680
heaven.
730
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,200
We create a utopia in this world.
731
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,200
And that's the future of the world.
732
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,240
When that's going to happen, the Bible is very clear.
733
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:22,680
No one knows.
734
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,040
So obviously, I don't know.
735
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,520
And all those people that say they do, when they do, that's a big, giant red flag that
736
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,760
they're a false prophet, by the way.
737
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,520
No one knows when that's exactly.
738
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,920
I'm hoping that it happens this afternoon.
739
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,800
If not, how about by Friday?
740
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:45,560
If not, I don't know when it's going to happen.
741
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,440
Jesus suggested to me that it's not that far away.
742
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:55,280
And with the science of the time and the world that we're living in, one can't help but suspect
743
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,320
that it may not be so far away.
744
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:03,600
And if you want to read a really good section of the Bible that spells all this out, and
745
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:10,160
what I think is pretty powerful prophetic language, read the Gospel of Matthew chapter
746
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,040
24, which is 100% the words of Jesus talking about how the New World, the New Earth is
747
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,880
coming about.
748
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,760
And I think we are in the labor pains of that coming about.
749
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:33,440
So our job, every single person in this world, is to, to the best of our ability, create
750
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:41,960
a relationship with God through the Christ, and to be an instrument, not just for our
751
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:49,560
salvation, but for the salvation of everybody that we come in contact with.
752
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,280
Going back to that thing that I said earlier about, love the person you're with.
753
00:52:53,280 --> 00:53:02,760
After you have a relationship with them, maybe, maybe, maybe you'll have an opportunity to
754
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,840
talk a little bit about what God and Jesus have done for you.
755
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,560
I think the most powerful of evangelism, in my opinion, is personal testimony.
756
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,920
Things like, you know, well, I went through some really bad depression, and this is how
757
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,920
Jesus helped me find my way out of that, etc.
758
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:28,240
I think that that kind of testimony is a whole lot more powerful than telling people what
759
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:29,240
they should do.
760
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:31,840
You know what, people get defensive when you tell them to do.
761
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:38,520
You know, Eric, you know, the problem with you is those shirts that you wear, you know,
762
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,040
nobody can take you seriously with those ugly shirts you're wearing.
763
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,400
Why don't you get a nice shirt, you know, and button up the collar?
764
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:46,400
You know what I mean?
765
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,000
Doesn't that make you feel a little defensive?
766
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,080
Like, you know, who, who the heck is Howard?
767
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,840
You have no idea, you have no idea how true that is, Howard.
768
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:59,640
And I know, and I know since you lost your vision, you can't see my shirt, but.
769
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:00,640
That's true.
770
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:05,320
I'm just wearing a t-shirt here, but usually I'm wearing a flowery shirt, so I know people
771
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,480
don't take me seriously.
772
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:07,480
It's okay.
773
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,480
Like Hawaiian flowery?
774
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,480
Yes, Aloha shirts.
775
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,480
Uh-oh.
776
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:12,480
Yes.
777
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,160
Yeah, by the way, I've been getting rid of my Hawaiian shirts.
778
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:22,680
God, send me your address and I'll send you a box of Hawaiian shirts.
779
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:23,680
Send them to me.
780
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:24,680
I grew up wearing them.
781
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,080
I still love them.
782
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,000
And I really don't care that people don't take them seriously.
783
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,000
Yeah.
784
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,640
But today it's a plain old t-shirt.
785
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,720
Uh, yeah, I don't look half as good as you do.
786
00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:37,280
Oh, wow.
787
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,280
Truth really hurts.
788
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,000
You got me between the eyes there.
789
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,920
See, I told you I had psychic.
790
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:44,920
All right.
791
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,920
You do.
792
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,640
Very last question.
793
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:55,480
I love asking people this on a scale of one to 10, how much fear of death does Howard
794
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,480
Storm have?
795
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:02,920
Thank you for asking that question because a psychologist who taught at the University
796
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,200
of Connecticut studied that question.
797
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,720
His name is Ken Ring.
798
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,360
He wrote about it.
799
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:21,320
And so what he did was in psychology there's instruments, there are tests, you know, multi-page
800
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:28,120
questions, the study of the fear of death called tontology.
801
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:34,240
You know, fear of death is the number one fear that general, everyone in the world has.
802
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:41,400
He used this instrument with two groups, people who have had near death experiences and people
803
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,560
who had not had a near death experience.
804
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,640
And in the group of people that had not had a near death experience, he found the fear
805
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,920
of death to be quite high.
806
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:58,240
In the group of near death experiences, they flunked the test as in had no fear of death.
807
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,920
So I have no fear of death.
808
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:07,200
People that have had NDEs that I've known and I've gotten to talk to, they have no fear
809
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,000
of death.
810
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:17,000
None of us have a death wish because we all are very much convinced that we have work
811
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:22,200
to do in this world, which I've tried to explain in that work is to pass on the love
812
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,440
of God to follow Jesus.
813
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:35,440
So I'm busy doing my J-O-B, which is trying to be as loving as I possibly can.
814
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:45,080
But when I die, it's going to be the happiest, best day of my life because I'm going to leave
815
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:55,080
this world of woe and to go up into a world of love, joy, and faith.
816
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:56,080
Amen.
817
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,080
Thank you very much, Howard.
818
00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:59,080
You're welcome.
819
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,680
It's been a pleasure talking with you.
820
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,480
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
821
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:11,560
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath.com.
822
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,840
If you want to share your near-death experience or if you have questions or comments about
823
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:20,160
the show, send an email to ericatroundtripdeath.com.
824
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:48,080
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
