Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
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And I'd like to welcome our very special guest today, Harry.
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How are you, Harry?
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I'm doing fine.
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Good.
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We're here with Harry.
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We're just using his first name to give him a bit of anonymity.
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He's only shared his story with a couple of people and there's reasons why he needs
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to be a little bit anonymous.
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But Harry, thanks so much for being on with us today.
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Would you mind just giving our listeners an idea of who you are?
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Tell us a little bit about you before we get into your experience.
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Okay.
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My whole life in a nutshell.
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I was born in Germany.
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I grew up in New York and I moved down here to Washington to take on a job as a government
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cartographer.
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And I've been around the country a bit.
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I've lived in St. Louis and Rhode Island.
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I consider myself just an ordinary person.
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There's nothing really special about me and just, you know, one of those government bureaucrats.
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And I've been delving into like dreams and things like that.
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Ever since I was a kid, I had a lot of dreams, like movie length dreams, nightmares, lucid
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dreams, about a year and a half ago in October 2022.
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I came down with COVID.
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My wife did too.
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And she was sick pretty bad for about a week.
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Having health problems myself, something weird happened on the, about the seventh night that
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I had tested positive for COVID.
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And I had checked with my doctor and he thought it was a medical emergency.
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I should have run to the emergency room.
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My blood pressure apparently cratered during the night.
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And I'm still trying to figure out what exactly happened to me.
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What happened to my mind?
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This was not a dream.
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This was something that was totally, I would say, in another reality.
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Let me just, let me just interject here.
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That what we refer to as near death experiences, I used to think, oh, your heart had to stop
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and you had to actually be dead.
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And visit the other side and come back.
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I have since learned from the IONS group.
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The definition is a little looser than that.
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People can be in comas.
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People can be very sick or in some kind of trauma.
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And for some reason, having out of body spiritual experience.
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And there's different terms for all of these various gray area kind of things.
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But I'm not concerned with that today.
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We just want to hear about your experience.
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So by the way, how sick were you?
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Were you in the hospital?
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Were you at home still?
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I was home.
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The first day or two, I had very mild cold symptoms.
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I was pretty much asymptomatic the whole week.
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I've had episodes of low blood pressure before where I'm literally at the point of passing
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out.
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As a matter of fact, I have passed out.
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But this happened during the night.
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I was fine otherwise.
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And when I woke up in the morning, I woke up and I was nauseous.
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I went upstairs to get breakfast and I was like in a daze and I couldn't believe what
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had happened.
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I just sort of, my head was spinning from it.
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And I was ready to pass out again.
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My wife took my blood pressure and it was like 60 over 40 something.
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So we called my doctor and he said, well, go to the emergency room.
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We didn't do that.
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And I just had some salt water and the blood pressure went back up during the day.
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I related this to, I believe it was Dr. Moody at University of Virginia.
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And I wanted to find out what had happened.
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And he actually, I managed to get his email and I wrote to him and he wrote back and he
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said, yeah, I did seem to have a lot of elements of a near death experience.
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So I'm still wondering, was this a near death or it leads me to come up with a lot of theories
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for myself about what does near death actually consists of.
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Because I feel the near death is more of a hallucinogenic reaction to the body dying.
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But what happened to me, everything was very abstract.
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It involved memories.
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And I went on a journey, not to the tunnel and the pearly gates, but something very similar.
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I believe I went beyond that experience where it was just completely unexplainable what I
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was experiencing.
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I don't even have words for it.
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Well, let's do this.
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Let me make sure I understand.
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So this was sometime during the night, you mentioned that your blood pressure cratered.
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Yeah.
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So you probably didn't take it at that time.
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It was later in the morning that you did.
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Exactly, yeah.
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So this happened during the night you may have been in and out of consciousness.
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Anyway, you say you went beyond.
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Could you explain that?
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I know you said you don't have words.
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I'm going to push you to try to put it into words.
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Start from the beginning.
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I can relate before I start.
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I can relate to the story called Flatland.
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I don't know if you've ever heard of it or read it.
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It's a novel by Edwin Abbott.
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He's got two last names.
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I remember a movie called Flatliners.
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Is that the same thing?
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No.
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This brought back a memory when I was younger.
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I read this book.
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It's called Flatland.
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It's supposedly written by a two-dimensional square.
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He doesn't identify his name.
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And he lives in what's essentially a flat existence, like a piece of paper.
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And he goes on to describe his whole universe, his whole everything that's flat.
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And he has a meeting with a sphere from the third dimension.
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And that sphere tries to explain to the Flatlander what the third dimension is.
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And he tries everything.
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He tries passing through the second dimension to show that he can appear and disappear by
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traveling through the second dimension.
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But the second dimension square cannot understand what this third dimension is.
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There's no words for it.
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There's no explanation for it.
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And I think that's what happened with me.
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So what happened was I tend to have very vivid dreams all my life, full movie-length
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dreams, all senses active, I can feel, touch, smell.
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I dreamt I was back in one of my apartments when I was little younger.
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I guess I was sick in that dream as well.
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I was in a bed and there was a girl who was making a meal for me.
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And she brought the meal out and sat on the bed with me.
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She started telling me a story.
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I don't remember the story.
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She touched my hand.
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And I get kind of emotional when I start explaining this.
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She said, I have to go now, but I'll be back for you someday.
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And if she got up and left, I was very disappointed.
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I was in a panic almost like, why she just got up and left?
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So I stood up out of the bed and all of a sudden, this was no longer a dream now.
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My mind was wide awake.
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I stood up.
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It was no longer a dream.
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To me, it was a reality.
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And I found myself, I was standing in a ferry boat, an interior lower level.
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It was packed with people.
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And later on, in retrospect, I realized all these people were actually souls, dead souls,
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very quiet.
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And the memory of the boat comes from earlier times in my life when I grew up near the ocean
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and I used to take the ferry a lot.
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We were heading toward a port and it was at night.
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And I could see in the port, there were all these flashing emergency vehicle lights in
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the port.
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And they were waiting for the ferry boat and I thought that was kind of odd, like what's
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going on.
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And I knew I wasn't asleep and it wasn't a lucid dream.
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This was different from a lucid dream.
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So I remembered I was going to look for the girl that had walked out.
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So I looked around and I saw her.
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She was standing at the back.
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I pushed through the crowd.
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Everybody was very quiet and silent, a lot of sadness in there.
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And as I approached her, I noticed she had an accompaniment of three men, sort of like
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a biblical, relates to the biblical trinity.
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And they were watching me as I approached her and they were sort of like bodyguards
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or something of this sort.
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And I went up to her and she was cocked against this post, her eyes closed.
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She opened her eyes and looked shocked.
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She said, how did you find me?
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So I don't recall the exact conversation.
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I think I complained about why did she break off the story she was telling me.
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She moved out of the view of the three men, moved around the post a little bit.
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And she looked at me and she said, you shouldn't be here.
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I get emotional when I recall this.
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It's okay.
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Take your time.
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I realized she was, she wasn't just a person.
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She was an angelic being.
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And she came into my dream and she said, it's not your time.
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I'll be back for you someday.
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And I thought that that was very, very touching.
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And she touched my arm and she projected this glow of love.
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Now you hear about people who have these near death experiences, what they talk about this
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cosmic love.
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This is where it's impossible to describe.
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It's just this feeling of like being bathed in like a force.
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I reached out to embrace her because I knew that she didn't want me to be there.
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We embraced and she looked up at me and I got a laugh out of this from a religious friend
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of mine.
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I kissed her very lovingly and she looked shocked.
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All of a sudden something was unleashed in this angel.
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Everything around us disappeared, turned white.
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It was a glowing fog and all of a sudden, like I noticed her face, she got pale looking.
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She started, it looked like it was raining in her face.
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Her face was dripping wet.
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She held onto me tight and all of a sudden like an explosion of this feeling of love
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came pouring out of her chest into mine.
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And it was overwhelming.
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There's no words that can describe this feeling.
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It was love, peace.
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And I grew up religious as a kid and I believe we have a soul.
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We don't really know what a soul is, but I believe we do have a soul.
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It felt like our souls merged.
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I was one with the angel.
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Everything about my existence had just completely washed away.
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I went beyond this whatever hallucinogenic state.
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All that was left was just light, love, peace and bliss like you can't believe.
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I had never even imagined such a thing was like possible.
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It was just unexplainable.
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There's no words for it.
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And I think if what transpired next hadn't happened, I might have not come back.
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I might have had cardiac arrest in my sleep.
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The ferry boat that we were on suddenly reached port and it was a surge.
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The crowd on the boat surged toward the entrance or the exit of the boat and I was caught up
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in the surge.
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I was separated from my angel friend and I felt our soul connection.
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I still felt connected with stretching and it snapped.
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It felt like a big rubber band had snapped and it felt like a piece of her soul was actually
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snapped off inside me.
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I was swept up in this crowd heading toward the exit of the boat and there was a man standing
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there on the landing.
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He was the portmaster.
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He was wearing a hat and had a uniform.
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He held up his hands and he said to everybody, he said, you should not be here.
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Go back if you can.
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There was another, I take it to be an angelic being at the front of this crowd.
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She had silver hair.
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She had like a silvery white silvery gown, beautiful woman.
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She held up some kind of pass to the portmaster and he opened up this big huge gate.
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It was not the pearly gates, it was some big rusty green gates weathered from being on
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the shore and everybody passed through the gate.
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I didn't.
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I went off to the side, I was still looking for my angel friend as I wanted to be with
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her and I walked into this field.
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It was daytime now.
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It was the most beautiful field I had ever seen, all flowers, colors beyond the imagination,
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beyond what you see in the rainbow.
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I looked up in the sky and the sky was pure white.
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There was no sun, but it was a blinding light.
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I stood there alone in this field and I sensed I was being judged by the sky.
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I had the impression the sky had a million voices.
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I couldn't hear them, but I knew there was this life in the sky and I thought, is this
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the edge of the afterlife?
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I got in a panic and I thought, am I looking into the face of God?
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It does just pure white light with love and peace and bliss.
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I ran out of the field and there was actually a building at the edge of the field.
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This goes back into the dream state.
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I ran into the building and there were three stylists and three clients.
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It goes back to this biblical Trinity thing.
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I looked at each one in the face and they all looked kind of like my angel, but none
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were.
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Then I woke up and that's where I went upstairs and I was like, something had hit me and it
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had just like, what just happened?
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I had a lot of things in retrospect.
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We could go into that, but I'll leave it to you right now.
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That's pretty much my experience.
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That's really beautiful.
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Could you clarify something for me?
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You were talking about this time a year and a half ago with COVID, but you also referred
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to a time a few years ago, I don't know when it was, when you saw this same angel.
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Were we talking about two different experiences here?
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I did have an experience a month later where she actually returned in a dream.
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Hold that thought.
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Let's come back to that.
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This was the first experience then, the first time that you met her.
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I just wanted to make sure I was clear.
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I have a few questions up to this point and then let's talk about what happens after.
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You said you looked up in the sky and you felt judged, but you also felt all this love
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and bliss.
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Was the judgment a negative thing or was it a positive thing and how so?
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It felt neutral.
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It felt like a very objective judgment of, I suppose, my life, just my entire being.
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But there was no voice, no feedback or anything, but I had a distinct feeling that this sky
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was judging me.
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Again, it's hard to explain that feeling, but that's the feeling I had.
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Let's move on to the angel.
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Do you have any idea who she was?
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In other words, do you feel like maybe she had some relationship to you or she was assigned
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to you?
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Give me your thoughts.
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I had talked to a friend at West.
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He was one of the few people I related this to.
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He's very religious.
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He thought, yes, we all have spirit guides assigned to each of us, and she was the one
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assigned to me.
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I had never met her before in a dream.
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I had never even thought about her.
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Even my thoughts of death were kind of mixed.
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I had mixed beliefs as to whether you die, you pull the plug, and that's it.
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You never even existed.
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I also had beliefs that maybe your afterlife experiences, your dream world, your dream
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world is a window to your afterlife that when you die, you live with all your senses
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being cut off as your body is dying.
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You go to live in your dream world and time becomes irrelevant, and that's your heaven.
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That's your eternity.
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I had mixed views.
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I did not have a religious view of the afterlife.
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There was no Jesus there.
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The angel that came to me, although she was more beautiful than any person I'd ever met,
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she was rather plain.
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She had dark hair.
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She wore a pantsuit.
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She had no wings.
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My religious friend thought that he related that to the movie.
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It's a wonderful life where she came.
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I guess in my state with the COVID and the blood pressure drop, she probably saved me
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from passing on.
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That pretty much sums up my first experience.
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Why do you think she saved you from passing on?
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You said it wasn't your time, but do you just have any feeling more than that?
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I feel like my current life is not yet complete.
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If I can put in another 10 years, I'll be happy.
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I have an avocation, besides being a government bureaucrat for my whole life.
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My hobby, as I mentioned to you before, is a butterfly study.
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I'm currently working on a number of studies that I initiated myself with a group of other
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entomologists.
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I need more time to finish these studies.
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One of my concerns, and I always relate to these people, I've got a number of severe
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health issues.
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I've got, I've had, I'm in remission, three different cancers.
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Failing kidneys, I'm in a final stages of kidney failure.
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I've got diabetes real bad.
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I've got a number of other health issues.
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If I can hang on another 10 years to finish my, my avocational research, I'd be more than
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happy.
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Hey, just a quick interruption.
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This month we're asking for your support for the show.
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It's definitely a labor of love for Will and I, but it takes a ton of time and money,
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and we need donations to keep things going.
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For those that donated last week, we thank you from the bottom of our hearts.
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For everyone else, it's easy.
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00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:30,520
Go to roundtripdeath.com, click on the little donation button in the upper right hand corner.
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00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,880
You can show your support for the podcast and help us move forward.
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00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,480
We have had requests for video interviews.
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That's something that we'll be unveiling soon, as well as other improvements.
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Thank you.
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Thank you in advance.
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Now, back to the guest.
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I'm satisfied, I'm comfortable knowing that she'll be waiting for me.
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I always relate back to my, my thoughts about the afterlife.
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I feel like I'm even ready right now.
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00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:04,360
If somebody told me I only had a day to live, I would just consider, consider it a joyous
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passing, nothing to be afraid of.
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00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:13,240
The experiences that you have had, while lots of other people have had them, they're still
346
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very rare and it's still a small minority of people that have had these experiences.
347
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:24,560
Do you have any feeling for why you were given these experiences, you personally?
348
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,400
That is a mystery to me.
349
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,200
You know, I'm not that religious.
350
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Perhaps it's just a luck of the draw.
351
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:39,040
I have a spiritual guide who saw that, you know, my body was probably in a state of failing
352
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that night at the end of my COVID, a week of COVID, and she probably thought that to
353
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give me some hope into, you know, with all the circumstances of that dream experience,
354
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,480
you know, I would wake up and continue on for a couple more years.
355
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:07,200
But what was amazing, and this makes me think that we have more of a connection to this
356
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:14,040
afterlife, this other world than people may realize, even the experts, from when I went
357
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:20,800
through, I think we have a connection to these spirit beings.
358
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:28,080
But what happened was about a month after I had this experience, and I call it a near
359
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,320
near death because I still don't know what in the world happened to me.
360
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,880
I had a dream, and it was one of my lucid dreams.
361
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:43,440
I was in a bar, it was with my wife and family and some friends, and we were sitting at a
362
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:52,520
bench, a table in the bar listening to loud, loud live music, and everybody was happy and
363
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,960
talking.
364
00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:02,880
And like out of the twilight zone, the dream just froze, it turned black and white, nothing
365
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:08,280
moved, there was a deafening silence.
366
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:15,400
And my wife had gotten up before the dream froze, she went and got up and went to get
367
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,800
a drink, so there was nobody sitting next to me.
368
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:24,760
The dream froze, and I was sitting there wondering like, what is going on?
369
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:31,640
Everything is black and white, no sound, no movement, and all of a sudden I felt somebody
370
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:38,920
bump me on my left side, and I looked over, and it was my angel.
371
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:48,440
And I get very emotional when I think back on this, she looked at me, and she was wearing
372
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a beautiful white gown.
373
00:25:52,200 --> 00:26:02,400
There was all made up, and she reached over, and she touched my mid abdomen, and she said,
374
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,400
you have a piece of me in you.
375
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:13,240
I didn't say anything, and then she said, I'm always by your side, I will never leave
376
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,680
you.
377
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:21,440
And then the dream resumed, the noise was back, everything was back.
378
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:28,000
And it was like, this is odd to happen in a dream, to have a message like that.
379
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,440
So I maintained the connection, and I know she's there.
380
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,920
And as I go about my day to day activities, especially in the weeks following my first
381
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:45,560
experience in the dream, she's always there in my mind.
382
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,920
I always see her, if I'm sitting alone, quiet, I can just see her right in front of me.
383
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,520
There you have it, that's what I experienced.
384
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:04,360
And it changed my complete outlook toward what life is, what's out there.
385
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:09,520
There's a lot out there that we just don't understand as mortal human beings.
386
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,720
There is something to an afterlife.
387
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:21,240
I believe in the theory that we're all connected.
388
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:27,080
God is everywhere, God is everything, God is a force that it's the life force in the
389
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,760
entire universe.
390
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:37,680
And when I experienced this love and this light, I went right to that cosmic source.
391
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:43,040
There was nothing there, nothing physical, just love, peace, bliss.
392
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,320
And I think that's the ultimate source where we all go.
393
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:53,640
We're all one, we're all part of this universal God force.
394
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,160
People may disagree, people may say, well, you know, they're going to see Jesus and they're
395
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,120
going to be in the presence of Jesus and heaven and all that.
396
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:08,440
But I think that's all part of that hallucinogenic travel to the afterlife.
397
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,800
I didn't go through the tunnel.
398
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,840
I went on a ferry boat ride.
399
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,160
It's got a humerus.
400
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,320
Everybody's experience is different.
401
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,080
You'd be surprised how many people, Harry, don't go through a tunnel.
402
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,640
They just find themselves in another place.
403
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,640
Or the journey takes place some other way.
404
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,640
That's a beautiful story.
405
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:36,600
With all of the health problems that you have and going through cancer and things like that,
406
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,280
sounds like because of this, you don't have very much fear of death.
407
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,040
Would that be the case?
408
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,040
Absolutely.
409
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,560
I'm ready to go.
410
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,960
You know, I don't mean to sound like suicidal or anything like that.
411
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,400
I am happy with my life.
412
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,880
I have a lot to give to this world.
413
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,280
And to butterflies.
414
00:28:55,280 --> 00:29:01,200
I've discovered actually a few butterflies right here in the eastern U.S. with co-authors
415
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,280
right under our very noses.
416
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,920
Butterflies never thought known to exist.
417
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:12,240
And I have a few more in the works and study and I need a little more time.
418
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,720
You need time to get your name on a species.
419
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:15,720
How's that?
420
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,720
Yeah.
421
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,360
The Harry butterflies that aren't Harry.
422
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,440
Would you mind telling us, and you don't have to go into any personal detail, but telling
423
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:32,080
us why you need to remain a bit anonymous with this.
424
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,160
Have you tried sharing this with loved ones before?
425
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,440
I've shared it with, I believe it was Dr. Moody at UVA.
426
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,520
I actually did a little bit of stalking.
427
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:49,000
I found his email address through the staff directory and I emailed him.
428
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:55,080
They have a link where you can submit your NDEs, which is what I did, but I never got
429
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,920
much of a response.
430
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,280
So I emailed him and he actually did email me back and he said, yeah, you had elements
431
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,400
of a near-death experience.
432
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:11,640
I shared it with a doctor friend of mine who really didn't respond, but I related it to
433
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,240
a friend in California.
434
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:24,000
He's very religious and he related back and he said, yeah, he believed exactly what I experienced.
435
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,840
Dr. Moody is awesome, by the way.
436
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:27,920
He's been on the show.
437
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,600
We had a great discussion.
438
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,680
I thoroughly enjoyed him.
439
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,800
For those that aren't familiar with him, he's sort of the, I guess you could call him the
440
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,160
godfather of near-death experiences.
441
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:46,360
He coined the term way back in the 1970s and has written multiple books and done tons of
442
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,600
research on it, et cetera, very highly respected.
443
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,280
So I'm glad you had a chance to communicate with him some.
444
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,280
He's a great guy.
445
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,480
I still need to read his book.
446
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,840
Well, he has a few of them.
447
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,840
I haven't read them all yet.
448
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,400
But yeah, if anyone wants to hear that episode, by the way, go to roundtriptdeath.com.
449
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:13,280
There is a little search tool and you can just search Dr. Raymond Moody and his episode
450
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,080
will come up.
451
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,480
Was there a problem telling close loved ones?
452
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,680
Did they believe what happened to you?
453
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,360
I had not related it to my family.
454
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,280
My wife, she doesn't believe in that kind of stuff.
455
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,320
She wouldn't understand.
456
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:38,240
We have issues about seeing eye to eye on things like that.
457
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:44,080
My daughter who lives with us, she, I think she would go into a panic and be too overly
458
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,680
concerned about my frailty as being near-death.
459
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:55,240
My wife actually, even though I'm only 69 years old, my wife treats me like I'm 90 years
460
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,240
old.
461
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,280
She's afraid of me falling, she's afraid of me going outside for a walk.
462
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:07,800
I don't want to introduce any kind of unfounded concerns on their part.
463
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:13,680
So I haven't related it to my wife and daughter here.
464
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:20,720
Although I do have a daughter who actually lives in Colorado and she's starting to go
465
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,440
into, she's starting to come around to talk about afterlife and things like that.
466
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,160
So I may relate to her.
467
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,240
I think she's more open-minded about it.
468
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:36,440
And I'm curious to see how she'll react to my story.
469
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,320
I feel kind of embarrassed about going to tears when I tell her.
470
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:49,240
But when I woke up from my first experience, from my NDE, was as soon as I came to my senses,
471
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:56,160
I went to my computer and I sat there for about two hours typing up every little detail
472
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,760
that I could remember, which is how I remember it to this day.
473
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,800
Otherwise, it would start to fade in my memory.
474
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,440
I often go to tears reading it.
475
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,240
I'm glad you've done that.
476
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:13,160
That'll be of great worth to your posterity when they read that someday.
477
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,680
They're not going to think you're crazy.
478
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,520
They're going to understand.
479
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:17,520
I hope not.
480
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,520
No.
481
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,640
Well, this is all so beautiful.
482
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,680
And I really appreciate your time today.
483
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,240
And before I let you go, give a plug for the butterflies.
484
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,640
So I'm a hobby beekeeper.
485
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,640
I'm not that into butterflies, but I like bees.
486
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:37,360
So let's talk pollinators in general because this is actually pollinator month, as you
487
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,360
probably know.
488
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,360
Oh, yes.
489
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:40,360
Exactly.
490
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,200
So give a plug for the pollinators.
491
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,120
What should people do and not do in their yards?
492
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:54,640
Well, when I tell friends, I have a small group here of friends that we share information.
493
00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:02,240
One of the things I recommend that people do is go online, do a little bit of research,
494
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,560
googling, or duck duck going as I do.
495
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,920
Look up what food plants the butterfly caterpillars like to eat.
496
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,920
That's very important.
497
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,480
A lot of people plant beautiful gardens, which I encourage.
498
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,040
And I tell people, plant a lot of attractive flowers.
499
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,200
Look online.
500
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,920
Try to get a book on butterfly gardening or nature gardening.
501
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,000
And combine the flowers with host plants.
502
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,960
So when the butterflies come into your garden, depending on the species, if you have their
503
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,440
particular host plants there, there's a good chance to lay eggs.
504
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:46,240
And you'll be helping their population to survive.
505
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:50,840
Like with the monarchs, people encourage to plant milkweeds.
506
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:57,160
Because I know in the Midwest, the farmers there, they're trying to eradicate the milkweed
507
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:03,360
because I forget the whole story, but they don't like it growing in their crops.
508
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:09,880
I guess they consider it a weed and they spray all the weeds and they spray for the milkweed.
509
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:15,760
And what's happening is the monarch population is declining, at least in the Midwest from
510
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:16,760
what I hear.
511
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,840
Eastern is a different story.
512
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,400
We don't have as much agriculture as out West.
513
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,560
And a lot of people here are planting lots of milkweeds.
514
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,200
And I have a small garden now.
515
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,760
We used to have another house and I had a huge garden with lots of flowers.
516
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:38,280
I had butterflies that were not supposed to be there.
517
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,280
Two species I came from out of the mountains to my garden.
518
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,440
I had their host plants and they found them.
519
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:50,000
I had colonies of these mountain butterflies in my suburban butterfly garden in Northern
520
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,000
Virginia.
521
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:57,680
So, that's what I tell people and not to use insecticides, not to spray.
522
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,280
Many of the herbicides will kill pollinators as well.
523
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,480
Most people are unaware of that.
524
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,120
Your roundups and things like that don't sue me roundup.
525
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,800
But yeah, it's proven that the glyphosate is killing bees and all kinds of other good
526
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,960
pollinators too.
527
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,400
Relating back to butterflies, when I was younger, when I first moved down here, I had described
528
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,080
a butterfly in New England with a co-author.
529
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,560
It's called the Cherrygall Azure.
530
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,400
It's a small blue butterfly that nobody had recognized as a species.
531
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:35,000
And we wrote up the study and published it, peer-reviewed science.
532
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,280
I moved down here and nobody knew about it down here.
533
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:46,600
I went up in the mountains and I found a small colony of this butterfly up on Skyline Drive
534
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,960
in Shenandoah National Park, which was very unusual because we had only known them to
535
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,840
be up in New England and New York, Pennsylvania, that area.
536
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,360
So I had studied them for about a year or two.
537
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,760
I went back up to see them and I was kind of happy to see them flying around.
538
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:09,960
And then the gypsy moth started moving south into the mountains here.
539
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,720
And of course, leave it to the government.
540
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:19,400
They decided to spray everything within a mile of Skyline Drive with this gyp-check,
541
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:26,080
which kills not only every gypsy moth, but every butterfly and moth caterpillar and I
542
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,760
believe literally every insect.
543
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:34,240
In the years following, that butterfly disappeared, they killed it off with the gyp-check.
544
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,200
And it's very sad that that happened.
545
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,200
That's really sad.
546
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,160
Well, listeners, I'm sorry to get off on this tangent.
547
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,160
It was my fault.
548
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,800
I brought it up.
549
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,000
Harry is so passionate about butterflies.
550
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,240
I love it.
551
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:53,760
But Harry, one day, years from now, when we're both on the other side, please bring your
552
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:54,880
angel to meet me.
553
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,440
I would love to meet her.
554
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,440
Okay?
555
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,800
My pleasure.
556
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:06,560
So Harry, before we go, I'd love to leave everybody with a message of hope, something
557
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,280
positive, something to brighten their day.
558
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,680
What have you got for us today?
559
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:20,960
My message to people who go through their life, they look at their lives and they think
560
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,120
back, was I a good person?
561
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:24,120
Was I a bad person?
562
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:25,680
Did I have a good life?
563
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,400
Did I contribute something to this world?
564
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:34,120
I think we all contribute something positive to this world.
565
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,280
We build up our experiences.
566
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:44,360
And I think that's the bottom line about this going to the afterlife.
567
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,200
We take these experiences with us.
568
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,240
And we each have our own experiences.
569
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:58,360
A lot of us may be religious, a lot of us may be new earthers and they don't believe
570
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,360
in Jesus.
571
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:10,360
We take all these experiences with us and knowing that your life's some leaves this
572
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,040
earth on a positive note.
573
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:19,360
If you can gather up all your positive experiences and thoughts and dreams and everything and
574
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:25,880
hang on to those, knowing that when you're in your death bed or you have an accidental
575
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:32,120
death that you're taking those positive experiences with you.
576
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:38,840
And those make your afterlife or your journey to the afterlife.
577
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,160
That's what my message would be.
578
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:48,880
For people that don't believe in God, why should they believe in an afterlife?
579
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,960
I often questioned about is there really a God?
580
00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:01,040
Is God just a made up fable from the early writers of the Bible?
581
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:10,200
I've delved into various writings and radio broadcasts in the past about the afterlife.
582
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:15,520
I think that people don't understand what God is.
583
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,320
I don't think God is a human or has human characteristics.
584
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:31,480
They say God made our minds in the image of his mind, but I'm convinced that God is not
585
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,240
a person.
586
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:35,960
God is everything.
587
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,480
God is the universe.
588
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:45,600
God is the life force that binds everything together.
589
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:56,760
When we go, like I experienced, you ultimately wind up in this state of unexplainable, unbelievable
590
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,600
bliss.
591
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,360
If you're positive about your life and you're positive about what you've contributed to
592
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:11,320
this world, I think that experience will be the best thing for you.
593
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,760
It'll contribute to the overall God force.
594
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,760
I think all of our experiences we built to this God force.
595
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,760
Who knows where this is all leading in humanity?
596
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,760
You talk about the universe expanding and what becomes of the universe someday.
597
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,760
To me, that's all part of God.
598
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,560
That's what He is.
599
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:35,800
He's everywhere.
600
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,480
He's everything.
601
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,440
We experience that when we pass.
602
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,200
All right.
603
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,960
Thanks again for being with me today.
604
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:45,960
Okay.
605
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:46,960
Thanks.
606
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:47,960
Thanks, Eric.
607
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,360
It was a pleasure talking to you.
608
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,000
Thank you so much for listening and supporting the show.
609
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,920
Just a reminder, click on over to roundtripdeath.com to make a donation, and we'll put a link
610
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,480
in the show notes.
611
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Until then, I wish you every good thing that you're looking for in this life and the next.
