Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome, welcome to RoundTripDest everybody and I'd like to welcome our super happy special
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guest today, Catherine Avery.
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How are you Catherine?
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I'm great, how are you?
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I'm good.
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It is an absolutely beautiful fall day out there.
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And I know you live not too far from me, so would you second that opinion?
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Yeah, I love it.
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The sky is extremely blue today and I see some snow on the mountains, so we're good.
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Well we're going to get into your near-death experience in just a minute, but I would love
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for our audience to get to know you briefly.
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So who is Catherine?
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What do you do?
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What do you love about life?
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Well, I come from a bigger family.
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I'm number two of seven siblings and that is quite a lot of my identity actually.
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I moved not too many years ago to be closer to all of them again.
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We grew up pretty close to each other and I do a lot with them these days.
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I am a big reader, love to get to know people.
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I'm a chatter.
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I will also, it has occurred to me based on what the subject matter for today is, to
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just also let you know one other thing about me is that I've never been a strong swimmer,
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but a couple things that came up in my life before my near-death experience have led me
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to think a lot about my particular experience and what it was and why and how it happened.
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And so I may bring those in just too little incidents as we go.
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Well, and we're going to talk about your drowning experience in just a minute.
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Anything else you want to fill in?
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I don't know.
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Oh, did I mention that I'm a musician?
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I'm a musician.
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That's also another big part of my life.
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What kind of musician?
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Lots of things, but I do play multiple instruments.
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So classical music, folk music.
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What's your favorite?
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Well, I've played the piano the longest and I just actually started the harp last year.
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So I've had a ton of fun playing the harp for a year and performing in public just a
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little bit with that.
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That's a big change.
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Both are instruments that are hard to pack around to different places.
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You're not choosing the easy ones.
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Get a flute next time.
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Oh, I play the flute.
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Oh, okay.
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All right.
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Before we talk about your drowning, and this was when you were a teenager, you just mentioned
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some things before that that I don't know about.
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So go ahead and fill in the blanks on that.
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My parents had a period of secondary infertility.
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They had had three children, then they had several years where they were trying for more
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and that did not happen.
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And then later on, they had four more.
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In those years, there were different experiences.
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And so I was a kid.
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I got to experience this along with the family.
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I believe my grandmother at one point gave my mom a particular book, which I got a hold
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of out of the bookcase at some point.
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I'm a big reader and reading through the story.
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It was about a woman who watched her husband drown.
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She and their family of six or seven children were out on a boat and having a day and something
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about the story in the end, her husband ended up in the water.
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She had to keep all those kids safe on the boat, couldn't rescue him, and it was cold
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and he got tired and all the things.
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And there was nobody around.
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And so the book just kind of, she had a little bit more of her story, but that was a lot
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of what the plot of this book was.
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And I read that as a kid and had a lot of thoughts about it.
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And I don't really know why my parents had this book in the house, but you would think,
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well, I would think that that was a pretty interesting thing to put into my brain as
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about a nine-year-old, even before that.
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So I had had some swimming lessons as about a preschooler.
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It wasn't a great swimmer I never have been.
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But I knew some basics.
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And then you have water safety lessons in school every once in a while, things like
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that.
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And it did seem like that was a topic that stuck in my head.
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And even as a kid, I would think, am I going to need this information in some particular
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way someday?
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I hope not, you know?
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But I would just keep it.
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It was always there in the back of my mind.
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Again, a story, a short story that I heard that was based on a true incident, I'm sure,
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of a little kid who had found himself trapped underwater on a camping trip with his brother
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and his dad and maybe an uncle kind of thing.
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And it was a short story, but the kid just was talking about how he handled finding himself
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underwater, trapped by some branch or something.
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And the thoughts that came to him that helped him know what to do next and stay calm and
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this kind of thing.
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And I just, I tucked that story away in my head as a little kid and thought, well, that
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was useful.
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If I ever need this for some reason, I will know at least to do the things he did, you
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know?
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And he came out of it, obviously.
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And so, I mean, with those two stories just by themselves, before I was 10 years old,
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I had, I suppose, in the back of my mind, this wondering whether that would ever need
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to be something I needed.
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And I didn't spend a ton of time on them, but I definitely had them in my repertoire,
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I suppose.
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And so then when my own experience happened, I feel like both of those, oddly enough, came
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into play, although I probably didn't go back and put all that together for several years
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after my own experience.
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So it was almost like a, almost like a premonition, but something that also was helping to get
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you prepared.
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That's very unusual.
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That's interesting.
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Okay.
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Tell us about when you were a young teenager.
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Where were you?
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Yeah.
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When my family had moved, we had lived on the east coast of the U.S. when I was a little
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kid, and there was water everywhere.
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We went to the Jossam Beach, at least once a week, most summers kind of thing.
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But I did not have a lot of experience on the middle of a body of water.
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I had not really been in a boat before other than visiting boat museums.
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That does not count.
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I was not very familiar with this whole thing.
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You know, I didn't feel like it.
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And when I was a young teenager, we moved most of the way across the country, ended
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up near the Colorado mountains, and there are lakes there everywhere, but not very many
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beaches that you can count as beaches.
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I mean, it's not the same.
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So one of the first summers we were there, they told a bunch of us teenagers that, and
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my brother was there that day, that we would be going boating and water skiing, you know,
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all that stuff.
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And I didn't even realize at that age that apparently that was something that plenty
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of the teenagers out in the West did, all the water skiing stuff that I don't know that
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I'd heard.
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I'm sure people do it in the East too, but just there was a little bit of a cultural
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difference there, maybe.
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I wasn't sure, maybe even partly because of these stories I had read.
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I don't know, but I wasn't feeling terribly comfortable about going on this trip.
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But I went and I thought, maybe if I don't want to go on the boat, I won't have to.
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But I'm willing to go for it.
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There have been plenty of things in life you just go for it.
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So my brother and I, and then these other people went and nobody else in our family
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was there.
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It was a lot of, there were plenty of adults and just a few little kids, mostly teenagers.
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And my brother and I ended up in the same boat.
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I mean, I think there were people just swimming or staying on the beach, but once we were
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there, I thought, well, why not go in the boat?
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But they did not have life jackets for everyone.
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I'll tell everybody that.
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And that's not so smart, right?
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If ever I'm in charge of something like that, I'll kind of make sure we round all of that.
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And I've done boating and rafting and things in the years since and it's been better.
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But yeah, so we all got on this boat.
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They had just a couple life jackets to share between everybody as far as if you go out
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in the water behind the boat.
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My brother did.
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Maybe everybody else in the boat did that day and I did not.
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But I enjoyed the ride and the water was choppy.
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It seemed like there was also quite a, the weather was cooling off.
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We were almost maybe a storm.
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There are plenty of storms on those lakes in the afternoons in the summer in Colorado.
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And so we came to an end of everything and the man driving our boat had a couple of his
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little children on the boat with us.
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They may have had life jackets.
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I don't remember.
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I'm sure he was kind of putting his resources at the disposal of these teens.
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So he had whatever he had that day at the end of everything.
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He didn't go back to the boat ramp.
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He was going to take another boatload out.
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And I think he thought, well, I'll get pretty close and people over on the beach or the
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shore are over there and all of you just jump out and swim over there.
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And I knew that I wasn't a strong swimmer, but I thought, we're pretty close.
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I can do this.
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I'm not going to make a fuss.
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And everybody else jumped out before me.
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And so I was asking them as they went, you know, they pop up again, they keep swimming
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away and I was asking them, hey guys, how deep is it?
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How cold is it?
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Anything I should know.
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There's a lot about rocks underneath more than other things.
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And they all kind of gave me generic answers.
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They weren't being unhelpful, but I also still felt like I don't really know how this is
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going to go.
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And for some reason I did have just that little sneakiness of I'm not so comfortable with
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this, but I didn't know why.
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And so I thought, well, I shouldn't be holding this man up.
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He wants his next group.
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So I jumped out of the boat and hit that water and it's cold.
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The water on the East Coast warms up somewhat.
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The water on Colorado lakes, no.
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Yeah, that water took my breath so fast.
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There I was.
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You know, the boat can only be inches away from me if I can get up above the surface
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again, but can't see anything, all I can feel is cold, have no air.
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And from there, I don't know, shall I just keep telling the story here?
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Well, yeah, I just wanted to interject one thing.
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The cold water, it can be very dangerous.
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You know, for anyone that hasn't done some kind of a, well, ice plunging is so popular
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now, but hopefully you won't drown in one of those.
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But when you jump in really, really cold water, especially when you're not expecting
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it and don't have experience with it, it can actually like cramp up your muscles, freeze.
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And the shock can make you expel your air.
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So it's not surprising to me to hear that you just had no air.
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I mean, just so that we can relate to where you were at, plus you were little and all
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that kind of stuff.
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So, okay, what happened next?
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I'm under the water and at that point, even just the sensation of knowing, okay, I've
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got to either take in some oxygen here or, you know, the opposite, you know, like instantly,
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like I do not have anything left.
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I felt like time slowed down.
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I mean, I'm sure, you know, and I was having all these thoughts and I was remembering that
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story that I had heard as a little kid about the boy.
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And one thing he mentioned was that he just, he had heard a voice telling him, don't breathe
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in.
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And so I thought, okay, I mean, you know, again, I could do that at first, I went out
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of time, you know, and I thought, all I need is to get back up above, but grief, you know,
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I've gone swimming and things, you know, my whole life, like this doesn't take very
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long, but there was just, and then so I spent what felt like a very long time waiting to
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foth up and holding my breath when I, I couldn't anymore.
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And finally I had time to think to myself, this is it, this is the moment I'm gone because
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I don't, this isn't going the way I would have thought or hoped it would go.
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Was it sort of a relaxation that came over you?
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Slightly not.
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I didn't feel like much changed in my general demeanor.
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I just was, I felt like my thoughts were going fairly slowly, like I had time to think about
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all of this.
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Because some people go from panic and then things kind of slow down.
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And you mentioned thinking through some things all of a sudden, which, yeah, that's interesting.
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Okay.
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And so then I had time, I would say I had time to have thoughts about, so if I die today,
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right here, right now, what is everybody up at home going to think, you know, what is
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everybody on the beach over there going to think?
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How is this going to go?
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And I had time, I was raised a religious little kid and I started praying, right?
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I'm praying, okay, God, I wanted to grow up and get married.
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I wanted to go home and see my parents tonight.
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I wanted, you know, but if for some reason I'm supposed to die, then the main thing that
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00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:37,040
I was concerned about at that point, which I kind of found surprising, if you'd asked
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00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,400
me, what would you be concerned about in a moment like this?
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I don't know that I would have picked this, but the thing I found myself praying about
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00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:51,160
was I was so sure, and I have no idea now if I would even have been accurate, but why
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not?
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00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:58,400
But I was so sure that day then that my parents would not handle an announcement well that
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their child had gone on this trip and died.
247
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That is not in the plan.
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00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,720
And again, because I wasn't wearing a life jacket, I just thought this is going to go
249
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all kinds of bad, you know?
250
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,560
And I also thought these adults that are here, very well-intentioned, maybe, I mean, they
251
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:17,600
had four or five boats, I'm sure at least one of the other boats would have had more
252
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life jackets, I don't know.
253
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,320
But I thought, I don't want to get this man in trouble.
254
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:29,120
He's a well-intentioned man doing, I guess, what he thought or hoped would go decently.
255
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,160
And I don't want these other grown-ups or anybody else anywhere to get in trouble for
256
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,720
me dying today.
257
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And that's what I was, that's what I was praying about.
258
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,240
And I just was thinking, I want my parents not to blame any of these people.
259
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,920
I want them not to blame themselves for letting me go on this trip.
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00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,800
I don't want, because I just, I don't know, I felt like me being in that water there wasn't
261
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:50,800
anybody's fault.
262
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:56,120
Which again, I wasn't a kid who was into blaming the world anyway, but I also felt like I had
263
00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,240
run into enough people over my years that there's always somebody looking for somebody
264
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:02,680
to point at, you know?
265
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,360
And I just, it was interesting.
266
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,160
I felt like I had time to evaluate my feelings.
267
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:13,080
And I just thought, I wouldn't call this anybody's fault enough to go after anybody.
268
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,440
So again, people who hear the story now may have different feelings.
269
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,480
So was there a point when you felt like you left your body?
270
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,480
Yes.
271
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:22,480
I mean, yeah.
272
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,080
I mean, it was interesting what kind of a transition that was.
273
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,040
So, so I'm thinking these thoughts and then, and then thinking, I guess I'm dying.
274
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,360
I guess this is it just because I continued to not surface, you know?
275
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,880
I think it was after all these thoughts about, I want, I want things to go well at home.
276
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:44,000
I guess I may not be coming back, you know, that I, that I did realize I did hit a very
277
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:50,800
specific point at which, and I did kind of realize this, like very shortly after that,
278
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,360
that I wasn't necessarily feeling the water anymore.
279
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,360
Right?
280
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,040
I wasn't sure whether I felt freezing cold anymore or not so much or what, but I, I wasn't
281
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,760
feeling like I was surrounded by water that was keeping my air from, from me.
282
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,280
It was more just like I didn't need air.
283
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,920
Like I, here I am, and I'm not worrying about that, you know?
284
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,760
And what is around me is, is space.
285
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,360
I would have just said it was space.
286
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,520
It was at least, it seemed like it was the same level of darkness.
287
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,720
Those lakes are very dark underneath.
288
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,120
It was the same level of darkness as what the water had been.
289
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,120
Yeah.
290
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,480
And, and there I was just, I didn't feel like I had moved, but I, but I definitely knew
291
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:29,480
also.
292
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,840
I was like, okay, I was fighting for air back there.
293
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,800
Now I'm not fighting for air anymore.
294
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,760
I'm not, I don't care about the air.
295
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,080
I'm not using the air.
296
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:44,720
You mentioned to me earlier that you had a life review briefly during this time.
297
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,920
Is that the next part or is there something, if there's something to fill in before that,
298
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:49,920
fill that in first?
299
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:50,920
Well, I'm trying to think.
300
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,720
I think that was the next thing.
301
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,440
So, so, you know, I had gone from my thoughts of my parents, my thoughts of, I, I probably
302
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:03,320
should be trying to go back up toward, you know, out into that world over there, you
303
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:09,520
know, instead of giving it all up, you know, right at this moment that I was like, wow,
304
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,280
you know, I'm not dead.
305
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,200
So even if I'm dead or even if people out there are going to find me dead, like, I'm
306
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,200
alive.
307
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,680
This is me, you know, I was very surprised that the next thing that happened was that
308
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:27,040
I found myself just seeing everything, everything.
309
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,800
And I mean, I was only 13.
310
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,680
How many memories can you have, you know?
311
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,200
But I see everything that had ever happened in my life.
312
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,400
And it was, it was very fast.
313
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,080
But I noticed that there was nothing missing.
314
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,120
And I've always had a very good memory.
315
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:47,000
And as a kid with fewer things to remember, I had had a very good memory.
316
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,400
But did I remember all of this?
317
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,240
No, like, you know, how could anybody remember all of that?
318
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,560
And I saw it all.
319
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,400
And it was just everyday stuff.
320
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,680
I hadn't had a big, exciting life with crazy things happening.
321
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,520
There was nothing, there was nothing missing.
322
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,440
And it was extremely bright.
323
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:08,120
So I don't know, you may have seen something in writing from me before.
324
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:13,560
Sometimes I mentioned how as a kid living on the East Coast, we didn't have satellite
325
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,720
TV or anything like that that was coming out and more people had that.
326
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,800
We always watch TV with the snow.
327
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:28,080
And so, you know, unless I was away from home, what I was going to see on our color TV was,
328
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,080
yes, it was colorful.
329
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,320
Yes, you could see what was happening.
330
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,320
Yes, you could hear it.
331
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:32,840
But it wasn't clear.
332
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,960
It wasn't crystal clear.
333
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:40,240
And to some extent, perhaps you could even say the color was kind of that much more subdued,
334
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,240
right?
335
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:47,120
And this that I saw was as if it were the clearest TV screen and more so, right?
336
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,600
More so.
337
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:54,480
And just everything, I was myself in some of what I saw as far as at the time the memory
338
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,880
would have happened that I would have recalled.
339
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,440
I'm seeing out of my own eyes.
340
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,080
I only see everybody else around me, you know.
341
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:06,320
And some of what I saw was as though I were an outsider now and I was seeing myself plus
342
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,440
the other people in the picture.
343
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,440
So that was interesting, right?
344
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,480
But I wasn't giving too much thought to it at the time, just going, wow, you know, there's
345
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,480
wow.
346
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,320
No, I wouldn't have remembered that, you know.
347
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,000
So very clear, very quickly and also backwards.
348
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,280
I don't know how many people I've heard who had talked about a life review where it's
349
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,520
not from beginning to end.
350
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,000
It was as though from the end back to the beginning.
351
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,040
And so that was very different because if you had asked me as a 13 year old to narrate
352
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,680
my life memory by memory, if I could have done such a thing, I would have started with
353
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,440
the earliest thing I could remember and I would have gone up to here I am underwater
354
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:45,720
dying, you know.
355
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:50,400
That's an interesting thought because most people don't even mention that, whether it's
356
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:59,360
from oldest to newest or newest to oldest, which leads me to believe that it's not necessarily
357
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:00,360
chronological.
358
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:06,880
In fact, some people tell me that they see everything at the same time.
359
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,200
So it's not necessarily one before another.
360
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,680
And our minds here on this earth can't really understand how do we see everything at one
361
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,560
time, but that's okay.
362
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,360
In a spiritual realm, we can do a whole lot more than we can here.
363
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:27,960
Is there any from that review, any maybe one or two experiences that stand out that you
364
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,320
that really had an impact on you?
365
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,280
Some of the things I was I was kind of grabbing at mentally and I couldn't hold onto any of
366
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:44,600
it was just a scene of being in the playroom, I suppose, at the house where I was about
367
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:51,800
05 and seeing my brother and I sitting around a set of magnetic toys.
368
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,080
And I mean, you know, I played with however many sets of toys in my life at all different
369
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,800
ages with all different people, you know.
370
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:04,400
And yet that particular memory was showing up and it was one where I didn't feel as though
371
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,280
it were me being present with my brother and the toys again.
372
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:15,720
It was as though I was across the room a little ways seeing me and my brother and the toys.
373
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,280
And then, you know, there wasn't anything special about it.
374
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:23,520
I was taking less than a split second to think, is there something important about this?
375
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:29,040
Or, you know, why is this something that I think I'm going to remember after this whole
376
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,600
experience, you know.
377
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,720
And I couldn't come up with any reason why that was important.
378
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,920
But I did have from the time I was about 4 or 5.
379
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:43,560
I do know that at some times like that where I was, you know, to an outsider I would have
380
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,320
looked like I was sitting playing somewhere.
381
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:53,280
I was having very deep thoughts for a kid about family relationships and people's temperaments
382
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,360
and who am I and this kind of thing.
383
00:21:55,360 --> 00:22:01,840
And so it could be that maybe that memory was something where if I could now go back
384
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,920
and see everything again, because I have no way of remembering this now, that I would
385
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,880
have been at that moment sitting there thinking about my brother and I always got along very
386
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:11,880
well.
387
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:12,880
We played very well together.
388
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,200
He was what I would have considered my best friend.
389
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:20,040
And others in my family were not so friendly, but we're not so easy to get along with.
390
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:25,480
And I did have thoughts about that kind of a thing quite a bit as a preschooler.
391
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,200
The idea that it's just so fun to be around this person and it's not as fun to be around
392
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,200
that person, you know.
393
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,320
So pretty simple.
394
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:38,400
But that kind of a thing, I just found myself noticing and thinking again, well, I mean,
395
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,000
that was, that's what I would call a good memory.
396
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:47,600
I wonder if maybe I'm, I mean, now I suppose I think as an older person, I think, was I
397
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,000
trying to hold on to any of the good memories in this life review as though I worried there
398
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,680
would be some bad ones or as if I worried that it was all going to get away from me
399
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,800
and disappear, you know.
400
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:58,800
So.
401
00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,800
Yeah.
402
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:00,960
Those are good questions.
403
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:07,000
So do you remember during that life review feeling anything like any guilt or judgment
404
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,080
or happiness because you had good experiences too?
405
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,080
That is a good question.
406
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:19,200
So I was struck by how very unemotional the entire thing was.
407
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,020
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408
00:23:23,020 --> 00:23:27,400
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409
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411
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412
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,880
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413
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,040
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414
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415
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416
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,040
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417
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,880
Now back to the guest.
418
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,920
I, again, perhaps I was trying to grab onto one or two of these memories as they went
419
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,600
past me so fast or not even went past me.
420
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,360
They felt like they went from me where I was in that moment away from me, you know, back
421
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:20,240
to the past and I was farther away from the ones that happened farther away as things,
422
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,960
as I became aware that there was nothing missing, not a single thing, you know.
423
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:30,160
I did feel that, oh, okay, all of this is, again, part of me, part of my life, this is
424
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,800
me, it is closer to me than I would have thought, you know, so that was interesting.
425
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:42,080
But no, it was extremely, extremely no emotion whatsoever.
426
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:48,560
All mental, all thinking, I'm just kind of going, okay, so what was this about?
427
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,680
You know, because I didn't have any experience to compare it to really at that point, except
428
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:59,240
for how I had been taught from the time I could remember that after we die, we are still
429
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:04,600
alive and I had been taught that it matters what we do in life and that, for instance,
430
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,400
after you die and go on to, because we keep living, I suppose if you go on to the next
431
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:15,520
life, right, that what you have done will matter to you some way, right?
432
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,680
That, yeah, I had been taught that if you, I had been taught the word regret and my parents
433
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,160
had always said you should live without regrets and do things, not do things that you would
434
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,920
regret later anyway.
435
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,040
And I think I mostly did that, although also the kind of life I was living as a kid didn't
436
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:36,200
lend itself to a whole lot of doing very much that I would have regretted, I think.
437
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,160
Yeah, you were a good kid, so that makes sense.
438
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:46,440
Do you remember in addition to the near death experience, or excuse me, the life review,
439
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,040
do you remember seeing or feeling anything else?
440
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,360
With this life review and then feeling that there was no emotion attached to it, even
441
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,720
so again, I couldn't hold on to anything I had just seen.
442
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,760
And if I had wanted to say, well, I remember that, that makes me feel worm and fuzzy, you
443
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,060
know, no, there wasn't anything like that.
444
00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:11,840
I did just have a sense, it was an absolutely powerful sense that yes, if I had done something
445
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:18,040
in what I had just seen that I would now be feeling regretful for, that that regret would
446
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,480
have been there, that that would have been a feeling and that would have been very strong.
447
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,600
And so I kind of was thinking, well, don't, you know, shouldn't I then feel just as happy,
448
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,560
strongly happy about the good stuff?
449
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,560
And I didn't, but I just felt like, okay, so I don't know what to do with this, but
450
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,200
this is what I have here.
451
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,200
You know, I felt like I was kind of holding it in my hands a little bit for a split second
452
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,920
of going, okay, God or wherever, whatever, you know, but here it is, I don't know what
453
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:45,920
this is, right?
454
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:51,280
As soon as it was over, as soon as the life review was over, the sense that I had was
455
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:57,240
that now that I had seen everything, I was allowed to add to it if I wanted to.
456
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:03,720
I could say anything I could complain or dispute anything, whatever I wanted to do with this,
457
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,360
I could do it was up to me.
458
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,040
And I thought that's very interesting.
459
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,280
What do I want to do with this, you know?
460
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,400
And the thing that I also had the sense of was, which I wouldn't have expected, was that
461
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:23,480
anything I said in this moment or any claims I made about what this was would not replace
462
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,960
anything in the record, it would just add to it.
463
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,040
So you know, I'd be adding footnotes, I'd be adding addenda, and I'm going, okay, well,
464
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,160
why would that matter, you know?
465
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,360
In the sense that I had was, for instance, if there was a time when I would have seen
466
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:42,800
myself fighting with a sibling or something like that, right?
467
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,800
And I wanted to now say, well, this was why, you know, somebody should see my side.
468
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,880
I had the right in the argument or whatever, that my comments now about that situation
469
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,080
would just go in the footnotes and they would be there.
470
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:02,160
But that, for instance, and if anything I wanted to say that would like tweak the situation
471
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,800
to be in my favor, that that would just be obvious because whatever I said in the footnotes
472
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,040
could be compared against what was available to be seen.
473
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,400
And so that was, I was realizing, oh, so what I just saw is kind of something that anybody
474
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:16,400
could see.
475
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:22,920
It's not just me or my life or private to me, this is out where anybody can see it and
476
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,000
anybody is going to come along and see it sometime, I guess, you know?
477
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,200
And so I didn't know what to do with that.
478
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:37,000
I thought if I add a bunch of stuff and try to spend time making myself look good, then
479
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,040
if somebody comes along and sees something that just playing out right in front of them
480
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,720
doesn't make me look good, then this will show the observer or the reader or whatever
481
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:48,880
you'd call it.
482
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,960
It would show that I'm a liar.
483
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,720
And it really, the thing that I really was sensing from this whole life review was reality
484
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,520
is reality.
485
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,840
Reality really happened.
486
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,240
This is how it was, good, bad, indifferent, everything else.
487
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:10,200
And anything that anybody tries to add to reality is just not real.
488
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,680
And it was interesting that right there underwater, I was getting such an education in a way I
489
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,920
never had to that point in my life about reality, what it really is, how it matters,
490
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,520
how it apparently plays out outside of this world even.
491
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,520
Super interesting.
492
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,600
And that's a lot in a short amount of time.
493
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:35,360
Was there anything else that you experienced before it ended and then tell us how it ended?
494
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,800
As I'm thinking, okay, well, apparently it is mine to do something with at this moment,
495
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,920
this thing that I just saw.
496
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,520
But this is what it's going to mean, you know?
497
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,200
And I really felt that I was accountable for whatever I did right now with that in this
498
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,200
moment.
499
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:56,200
I thought, no, I'm pretty happy basically with what I lived here in this world.
500
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,200
And I'm not happy with everything.
501
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,640
I'm not a perfect person.
502
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,720
I didn't think I was, you know, but like, well, this is what it was, you know?
503
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,640
And I guess I'm going to let the record stand.
504
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,080
And as soon as I thought that, again, I was kind of surprised that I was having all this
505
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,360
time to think this too.
506
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,920
So it seemed like lots of time was going by.
507
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,000
As soon as I thought, guess this is it?
508
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,640
I guess this was my life on earth.
509
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,040
And by then I was kind of going, I guess if this is happening to me, this means I'm gone,
510
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,040
you know?
511
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,040
I'm not going back.
512
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,480
I'm not going to be preparing to move on.
513
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:33,440
I felt as though the whole thing, which had been, I would have said it was like a, like
514
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:40,400
that film tape inside of the BHS, you know, with different little scenes inside stretching
515
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,400
away from me.
516
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,560
And I felt like it was rolling back into the machine.
517
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,920
So sometimes I say to people, it says, though, every detail of my life with nothing missing
518
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,200
was a receipt with all the details of the transaction, you know, every single thing
519
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,680
as it gets entered into onto the receipt paper.
520
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,720
And then once I said I was kind of done with it, it's all rolled back up into the machine.
521
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,640
And I was picturing like a, like a scroll in my mind rolled up.
522
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,960
And I had the sense it was going to get put, stored away somewhere.
523
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,680
I exposed they store scrolls and, or people used to store scrolls in earthen pots, you
524
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:19,840
know, in caves, you know?
525
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,240
That's kind of the sense I had was it's going away.
526
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,720
It's all safe.
527
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,240
It's all together.
528
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,760
This is you in your past.
529
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,840
And it will come out again sometime, but it's not time to think about it right now.
530
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,560
And I thought, oh, okay.
531
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:43,320
And so at that point was when I really, again, it was a specific decision or, or at least
532
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:50,240
a point in time where I was going, okay, I am turning away from all that stuff that
533
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,480
was hoping to get back out of the water, hoping to say something to the people up above, you
534
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,440
know, I am, and even though I say up above, I didn't at that point have a sense that I
535
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,640
was underneath any, in any way.
536
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,840
It was just, I'm in space.
537
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:04,840
I don't know where I am.
538
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,000
Here we go.
539
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,120
With that decision then that I'm turning away from all that, that was it.
540
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,520
That was going to be the end of my, my earth life.
541
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,320
And I thought, okay, well, I very much felt 13.
542
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,360
I didn't feel like I was wise or, you know, adult or anything.
543
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:26,960
I very much felt like a young teenager, but I thought I will, I will turn around and I
544
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,080
will face whatever is coming next.
545
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,080
I got to do this.
546
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,360
And, and I mean, as much as anything, that experience of being so naive about what might
547
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,240
be coming was one of a piece with the idea of going on the boating trip in the first
548
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,120
place where I, and all the other things in life that I'd done where I didn't know how
549
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,200
they were going to turn out.
550
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,720
So I thought, I don't know that I would say I'm comfortable with this, but I, I guess
551
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,520
is what we're doing, you know.
552
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:56,120
And, and it was as I turned more mentally than physically, but I almost did feel like
553
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,520
in space I was turning and, and I was turning away from all that stuff back behind me and
554
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,120
I was turning towards, in my best understanding darkness and emptiness.
555
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:12,480
And I thought, okay, but I, you know, no sense of God or anybody around me or anything in
556
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,520
space around me.
557
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,760
But I kind of was hoping and trusting that there was, you know, there were, there were
558
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,120
things out there and ahead of me.
559
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:27,040
And it was as I was doing that, that I came up out of the water and have to take a breath
560
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,040
now, you know.
561
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,040
And, and I had enough time.
562
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,600
It felt like, again, things were going slower.
563
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,480
I had enough time to be going, it's time to take a breath now, you know, and then do
564
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,480
so.
565
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,480
You know, it was a choice.
566
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,480
It was a decision.
567
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,520
And, and then of course I'm back to gasping for air as though it completely involuntary.
568
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,280
So I thought, that's interesting, you know, and by then the man had come off the boat
569
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,760
himself and was swimming towards me saying, are you okay?
570
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,840
You didn't know what's going on, you know, I didn't say, and saying, my little kids are
571
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:56,840
on the boat.
572
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,640
I have to get back to them on the boat and I have to care about them.
573
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,200
And is there some way that you can, you know, can you get to the shore then?
574
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,200
I'm so glad you came up.
575
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,760
I guess you're okay kind of thing.
576
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,880
And I was going, I guess I'm okay because, you know, but I was telling him, well, what
577
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,880
about the rocks?
578
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,440
Oh, it's freezing in here, you know, all the same things.
579
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,960
And he was kind of paying more attention to me than he would have otherwise, I think.
580
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,560
And so he kind of grabbed me by an arm or something and kind of towed me along with him just a
581
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,000
very short way until I could feel something on the bottom.
582
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:31,520
And then I walked or whatever I did back to the rest of the group and just kind of flocked
583
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,760
down on the beach and sat there and thought about all that.
584
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,920
And at the time, that afternoon and evening, I spent more time thinking about, again, my
585
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,320
parents, the adults, oh, I'm not going to tell anybody this story.
586
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,720
I don't want anything, you know, people are going to get all over everybody's case.
587
00:34:49,720 --> 00:34:54,120
And since I came out of it, fine, I think it's fine, you know, and again, that's probably
588
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,560
a very young teen way to think.
589
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,200
But that was how that was.
590
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,560
And I know that that man was concerned, but he was a man who didn't know me.
591
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,280
I knew who he was, but we'd never exchange words with each other.
592
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:10,000
Even in his bringing me back to the beach, we didn't hardly say anything to each other.
593
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,000
And in all the years that I knew him after that, he and I didn't interact.
594
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,480
So the whole thing was very interesting.
595
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,480
Okay.
596
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:23,000
Now, just a reminder, if for people that may be new to the show or kind of new to near
597
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,480
death experiences, these things can happen in all sorts of ways.
598
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,920
It doesn't always have to be the clinical heart stopped for a couple of minutes and
599
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,000
all of that kind of stuff.
600
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,400
These experiences happen in comas.
601
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:44,920
They happen in things like yours where, where you dead, where you alive, where you on the
602
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,320
verge, where you kind of in and out, you know, I don't really care.
603
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,320
It doesn't matter.
604
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,640
We're not trying to fit a definition here.
605
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,080
You had an experience that was very profound to you.
606
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:03,200
And so the next thing that I want to ask you is, how did this affect your life moving forward?
607
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,280
Were you a different little 13 year old girl from that point?
608
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:12,520
I was quite iffy about all things water for a while after that.
609
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:18,200
And I did at some point not too long after tell my parents at least some of that adventure
610
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,440
because there was some other sort of thing that came up that I didn't want to participate
611
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,440
in.
612
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,240
And I told them, it's because of my previous experience.
613
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:28,600
And so, you know, they were whatever it was I shared.
614
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,160
And I know I didn't share the whole thing, but they were pretty shocked.
615
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,800
I mean, I didn't tell them anything about my experience under the water, you know, or
616
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,120
you know, dying basically, but they were pretty shocked and they were pretty, I wouldn't say
617
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,360
angry like they could get angry and indignant.
618
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,520
But, but, you know, they were not very fond of the idea that I had not been wearing a
619
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,600
life jacket at the time, this kind of thing.
620
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,720
So, so they gave permission for me to skip whatever it was that I didn't want to do after
621
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:52,720
that.
622
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:56,480
But I went back and as an older teenager, I took some more swim lessons, things like
623
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,480
that.
624
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,880
And, and I've just, I've never been terribly fond of the water since that experience.
625
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,880
I'll say that.
626
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:08,680
But I mean, that was just, that was related to like the, the supernatural parts of it.
627
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:15,600
I would say for that, there were three experiences very different from each other that happened.
628
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,320
The year I was 13, that was one.
629
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,800
And there were two others.
630
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:24,760
I don't know that I was very much a different person in character, but I just, I thought
631
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:30,800
about all that stuff even more than I maybe even had for the few years before.
632
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:36,120
I would think about life after death and how, well, for sure, if anyone asks me, I'll tell
633
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,560
you, we're still, we're still us and we're still alive after we die, you know, again,
634
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,400
just the basic, I didn't usually go back to that underwater experience until I was older,
635
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:55,640
as far as where my ideas came from about how you should live so that you won't regret it.
636
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,920
You know, I just, I pretty much stuck with what my parents had told me as a tiny kid.
637
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:04,160
And then, and then these other experiences that happened in that same year would lead
638
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,160
me to just think generally about how, what kind of life am I living?
639
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,360
You know, am I happy with it?
640
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,440
Is this, is this who I want to be?
641
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,600
And, and more than that, because again, other things happened every year.
642
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,360
And, and my life got much more adventurous after age 13.
643
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,960
And I would spend time sometimes looking at other people and their stories and decisions
644
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,520
and thinking, maybe maybe the thing here is that you just don't know what I know.
645
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,800
And if you knew what I knew, you would do things differently.
646
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,840
You know, so that was, that was interesting.
647
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,360
I mean, really, it's only been in the last two or three years that I've, that I've really
648
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,480
shared about the voting experience with, with more people who aren't going to know anything
649
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,680
about me or ever hear anything more from me.
650
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:54,000
And generally when I do, I have been thinking of it from the point of view of how can I
651
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,720
just, if there is a situation where it seems like it might be relevant somehow, how can
652
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:04,720
I maybe just add to somebody's picture of kind of more for comfort, because I think
653
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:11,360
there are a lot of people who worry about, do I, do I live after this world kind of thing?
654
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,840
And sometimes, yeah, if somebody's making some decision that seems to me very extremely
655
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:22,000
foolhardy or something like that, I may think, again, if, if you knew what I feel like I
656
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,800
know, I think you might be doing some things differently.
657
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,720
Well, and that's one of the tough things about having an experience like this is such a young
658
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:34,640
age and especially not telling parents about it for a while.
659
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:41,000
As you had to deal with both the trauma and the things that you learned and experienced
660
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:47,520
under the water in a whole different kind of, you know, this was a spiritual experience
661
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,800
as much as it was a physical experience for you.
662
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,400
You know, how do we process that?
663
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:58,520
Even as adults, it's not an easy thing to process as a 13 year old girl.
664
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,680
I think you probably just shove some of this down and said, I'll deal with it later.
665
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,360
And you're finally, you're finally coming to terms with it and learning from it and
666
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:12,440
some of those kind of things, which is making you more comfortable sharing it.
667
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,840
And I appreciate you sharing it with us, by the way, because I know you've shared it
668
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,600
with a few people, but not publicly like this before.
669
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:20,840
So thank you.
670
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,360
I appreciate that.
671
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,400
One of the things that you had mentioned to me prior to this was about the colors that
672
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,800
you saw.
673
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,400
Can you tell me more about that?
674
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,400
Yeah.
675
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,560
Well, I just mentioned how bright everything was, right?
676
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:39,040
And as, I mean, it's a poor comparison to say it was going from the snowy TV to the
677
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,640
clear TV and even beyond that, that's still just not exactly how I would say it.
678
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:49,840
I don't know how I would say it, but for sure, not only was everything about my life there
679
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:56,000
that I could not have remembered, no matter how good my memory was, you know, but also
680
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,520
like even living it, even, even if like I'd gone back into my memory and I would have
681
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:07,000
remembered the basic tone of the light that was in this playroom with my brother, you
682
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,400
know, what kind, I knew what kind of light bulbs we had in there or whatever, you know,
683
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,800
I knew the color of the carpet.
684
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,160
I knew that how brightly painted the toys were, this kind of thing.
685
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:22,240
And how I was seeing it back in this experience was so much sharper than that.
686
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:30,600
So much, I don't know at what ages I experienced seeing things in definition, if that's even
687
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,080
the right word, how you can have, you can have things where you would even say the colors
688
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:41,320
of a shirt against a pair of suspenders over the shirt or whatever, you know, you would
689
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,000
say there's a difference in those colors, there's a place where this color begins and
690
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:50,560
that color ends, you know, on earth, everything about real life is much more subdued that
691
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:56,600
way and everything in those memories, everything about this life going back, there seemed very
692
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,520
sharp definition between every different color, between every different thing.
693
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,440
I would almost say as though somebody were painting bright yellow lines between the dark
694
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,720
blue and the red or whatever, and it was funny, I guess in some ways it's like when
695
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:15,880
you put a, like a glow in the dark vest on and you want it to be bright in the darkness
696
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,720
and it has not only the bright color but then also the reflective strips on top of that that
697
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:25,280
are a different material made to shine, you know, all these things, it just felt like
698
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:31,240
everything about the, what I saw of my life was, was very defined.
699
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:36,160
I just, and, and, and again, so, so again, I thought, well, you know, I thought I lived
700
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,400
life at the time, this was my memory of a thing that happened, you know, but again, when
701
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,480
it came time to say you can do what you choose to do with this record that you've just seen,
702
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:51,840
I just thought the fact that everything was so bright and so definite meant that again,
703
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,240
I couldn't argue with it, you know, I could add footnotes or whatever I thought I needed
704
00:42:55,240 --> 00:43:00,320
to do but nobody would ever, me or anybody else anywhere would never get away from the
705
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,240
fact that this is the record, this is how it stands, it happened.
706
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:08,280
Okay, before we wrap up, two other quick things.
707
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,440
One is on a scale of one to ten, how much fear of death do you have?
708
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:17,080
Oh, I didn't mention this, I just, I feel like, I don't know when in the experience
709
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,360
this really happened, maybe, maybe all along a few different other things I did mention,
710
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,640
but, but I did have time, I felt like I had time to think about this a little bit and
711
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:32,120
I thought, again, I don't want to die because like I wanted to do things in the world, you
712
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,360
know, I wanted to grow up and be an adult, you know, that, I thought I was an adult when
713
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,920
I was four years old, so I, that I was living for that, you know, at the same time it was,
714
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,920
I don't want to die meaning, and I hear other people talk about this in experiences at least
715
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,680
sometimes that it's just your body has a natural response, right?
716
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,400
It's gonna fight for life, it is gonna fight with every, you know, the more dire a situation
717
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:01,000
gets, the more specifically your body is going to fight to stay alive, you know, it's a thing,
718
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:07,400
you know, and, and that was, that was not fun to be living with, I mean, as much as,
719
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,000
again, there came that moment when I was going, I guess, you know, I'm still alive, I'm still
720
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,400
me, but like, it's not what I was experiencing just a second ago.
721
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,600
I'm not, again, I wasn't, I wasn't fighting anymore.
722
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,200
And that's the thing, I didn't feel like I fought the drowning, it was just my body
723
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:27,760
was doing some fighting for air and so there was that for just a little bit, I don't know
724
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,040
how long it went on and, and I was, I was happy when it went away.
725
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,800
But what about today?
726
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:39,520
And so that's the thing, I am not fond of the idea of being in that position again,
727
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:40,520
right?
728
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,680
However it is, I have to die in the future, it's gonna happen somehow, you know, and
729
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:51,760
I don't like the idea of having to spend any time with my body's response to, no, we're
730
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,560
not gonna die, we're gonna keep living, you know, but same thing as lots of people say,
731
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,680
I think, especially if you're in some situation where death starts to seem preferable or something,
732
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:07,840
you know, you're not gonna be, I'm not gonna be worried at all about what's coming after
733
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,600
I die, you know, I know that, that I'm still gonna be me, that I'm still gonna be alive,
734
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,120
I still trust perfectly well, but things are gonna happen and, well, I had a pretty good
735
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,880
life all things considered and I assume that it's gonna be at least that good elsewhere,
736
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,960
you know, I don't know why it wouldn't be, you know, so it's not, it's, it's the dyeing,
737
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,440
not the having died, I suppose.
738
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:33,080
That's a good way to put it, the dyeing, not the actually being dead, because the dyeing
739
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:38,040
may be painful or long or very unpleasant for some reason.
740
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:43,520
There are, is somebody out there today that's listening, that's having a rough day, maybe
741
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:50,400
because they've lost a loved one or they're worried about the future or something else,
742
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,360
what message of hope can you leave with us?
743
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,240
I have to take it into consideration with everything before and after the experience
744
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:04,040
and I've also had other experiences that you couldn't call out of body or not near death,
745
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:10,680
but that have been at least as powerful and real as that and I'm not just saying even
746
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:17,840
mentally or spiritually but physically, I've had physical experiences and taking everything
747
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:25,920
together for sure there is a God and he is a good God and what we understand by good
748
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:33,400
is it's, it's certainly good, you know, but like for instance, the subduedness of life
749
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,800
compared to the brightness of the life review, our understanding of the word good when we
750
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:45,840
talk about a good God is so subdued and what God really is like is that bright stuff.
751
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:51,800
I mean, honestly, I think this life, all the experiences we have, I've gone through periods
752
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,880
of depression and other things too, life hasn't always been wonderful.
753
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,520
Just everything about this world is a softer take.
754
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:06,120
God is giving us a softer take on experiencing all the things we go through.
755
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:11,760
He's not going to just give it to us spear in the gut, you know, he doesn't do that.
756
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,760
And so whatever we lose, whatever we have to, you know, everything I thought I knew
757
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,280
has to get put down the drain and we have to start over, you know, all the, all the
758
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,800
sad and hard things we go through in life, even just from that experience in the water,
759
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,200
God's there.
760
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:32,720
I think that I, from that experience, I would say the sense of God being there is very much
761
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:38,120
a on everywhere in and through everything.
762
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:42,040
I don't see him, I don't feel him.
763
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,840
I write, he's not touching me, you know, kind of thing, but he's definitely there.
764
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:50,160
And I mean, I'm not, that's not to say I don't also believe God is a person as physical
765
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,680
as I am in different states and worlds, but, but the sense, and I know other people talk
766
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,360
about this too, that the sense of every whereness, that's a funny way to say it, or the sense
767
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:07,400
of then the intelligence, the mind that is, that is the atmosphere, that is the environment.
768
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,400
I mean, it's, it's a, it's an energy, it's an energetic thinking, a live mind.
769
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,960
I mean, that was what was telling me, you get to do with what you choose with what you
770
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,040
saw here.
771
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:24,800
And then once I said, I'm letting things stand as they were, told me that it was all getting
772
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,760
rolled up and put away safely somewhere for some future time, you know, older I get, I
773
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,320
think, well, we can't escape that then, there's no getting away from it.
774
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:36,040
You know, it is, and it's around us and it's, it loves us.
775
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,360
If the environment, if the, if the atmosphere around you could be hugging you, that's what
776
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:41,360
it's doing.
777
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,880
I know it was a big question, a big open-ended question, but I appreciate all of that.
778
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,320
I appreciate your enthusiasm and your smile.
779
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,840
Thank you so much for being with us today, Catherine.
780
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,920
Oh, thank you for having me.
781
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,720
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
782
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:04,800
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
783
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:09,080
If you want to share your near-death experience, or if you have questions or comments about
784
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,600
the show, send an email to ericatroundtriptest.com.
785
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:35,960
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
