Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody, and welcome to Cat Sanders.
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It's good to have you on, Cat.
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Thank you so much.
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Does Cat stand for something, by the way?
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Kathleen.
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Okay.
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I like Cat.
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If you call me Kathleen, I think I'm in trouble, you know, because that's what Mom always
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called me.
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Kathleen?
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Is it something like that?
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Yeah, then I think I did something wrong.
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Well, I appreciate that you reached out to me a while back and we've had a chance to
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chat and we're going to hear your whole story with all the detail today.
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But before we do, do you mind telling us just a little bit about you?
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Anything you feel like sharing?
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Sure.
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Well, I guess you'd say I'm a senior.
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That means I'm just more experienced than most, right?
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I have a son and a stepdaughter that I love very, very much.
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I'm married and been married for a long time, 34 years.
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I've got your beak.
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Yeah, it's a long time.
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It is.
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I'm going very well.
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I live in Oceanside, California.
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And you know, I have a lot of hobbies.
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I've been in real estate for a really long time, but I also have a lot of hobbies and
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things.
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I actually do these days.
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I do some mediumship work.
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I like to do crafts.
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I make jewelry.
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I love rocks and things and gemstones and such, and I make my own.
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What am I looking at around your neck there?
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Is that an opal?
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It's a moonstone.
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Moonstone.
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Wow.
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When did you go to the moon?
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Sorry, bad horrible joke.
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Please edit that out, somebody.
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Let's go back to a rough day that you had in April of 2010.
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Tell me what was going on in your life and what was happening that day.
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It was actually, it started off to be just a beautiful day.
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Started in the morning.
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Went to the board of realtors and had, you know, training that I was doing with my husband
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that day.
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We probably did, we had probably, I don't know, a couple hundred people that came to
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our training that day, and it went very well.
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So it was, you know, just your average day, maybe a above average day.
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It was a great day.
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I felt great.
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I had a lunch with an agent that worked for me, and we had a great lunch.
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And I had another meeting that day.
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I went home in the afternoon.
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I was going to kind of freshen up.
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I had another late afternoon meeting.
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And when I went home, I took a shower.
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I was going to just kind of refresh and get, get ready for my late afternoon meeting.
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And my husband happened to be coming home.
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He also had a late afternoon meeting.
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And I was very, very glad he was home as it turned out, because after I got out of the
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shower and I was heading into the bedroom to change my clothes, I had this horrific
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pain in my head.
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In fact, it felt like somebody had just taken a knife and just stabbed me in the head.
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I literally felt my head to see if, if there was something in it.
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Yeah, had you had any history of this problem, this kind of headache before?
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You know, I had, I had suffered migraines all my life.
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In fact, even as a child, I had migraines.
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And I had what they called fainting spells as a, as a young child.
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They just thought, you know, it was psychological or, you know, nobody ever really knows what
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causes migraines.
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It's just some people have them and some people don't, but nothing had ever been diagnosed
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before.
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So no, there was, you know, nothing that I was aware of.
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So stabbing headache, but this one's different.
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This one was different.
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In fact, I said to my husband, my head hurts really bad and I'm scared.
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And he knew that I had a history of migraines and to him for me to say that, because I'm,
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I'm not a wuss when it comes to pain.
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I'd had enough migraines in my days that he got really scared when I said that.
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I stepped over towards the bed to sit down.
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And all of a sudden I realized that my, my legs weren't working the way I wanted them
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to.
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And, you know, I'm telling my body to do something and it's not cooperating.
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And it was, it was frightening.
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It was really, really frightening.
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And I knew something very serious was wrong.
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And the next thing I knew, I just was numb everywhere and I just, I couldn't move.
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I couldn't do what I was wanting to do.
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And everything started getting fuzzy.
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My sight was fuzzy.
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My, my hearing was fuzzy.
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I just felt numb and horrible.
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And then I went from being able to see kind of fuzzy to everything went dark and everything
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just went black.
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And it was almost like, you know, if you see a camera lens where it's kind of circular
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and it just kind of closes, that's what happened.
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Everything just closed and went to black.
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And that was like the last thing that I remember.
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So you passed out at that point.
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Yeah.
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I just went to black.
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Okay.
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Now my husband tells me I completely just crashed and fell to the floor.
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He was running in from the other room and kind of caught me part way as I was falling
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to the floor so that I didn't hit my head or hurt myself.
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But he said I just went completely limp and just crashed to the floor.
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Okay.
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So I assume an ambulance came and took you away to the hospital.
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Then what?
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He called 911.
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In fact, it was kind of interesting because, you know, again, from his account, he called
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911, the fire, the fire people came and the ambulance people came and they were trying
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to ask me questions and I was completely non responsive.
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The EMT from the ambulance, they had kind of given up on me.
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They said, you know, I don't even think we should take her.
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The people from the fire department were saying, we need to take her.
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We need to take her now.
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And the EMT from the ambulance said, I don't know that it would do any good.
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They said we'd have to carry her downstairs.
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And the fireman said, we'll carry her downstairs.
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Yeah.
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I hate to put them out.
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Yeah.
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Gee, so sorry for you.
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So sorry to bother you.
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But really, they had just for whatever reason decided that it was just a waste of time.
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So were they not, you know, shocking you and doing CPR and everything?
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They just were like, she's already gone?
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They just apparently, I guess my heart was still going, but I was like, I was in a coma.
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And I don't know if they knew what was happening or not, but they, you know, I was so completely
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non responsive.
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They just didn't think it was worth their time.
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But your heart's beating.
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I don't get that at all.
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Oh, well, we're not here to judge them.
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Yeah.
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Let's, let's keep going.
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Well the fireman, thankfully, carried me downstairs and put me in the ambulance.
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And my husband followed the ambulance.
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They didn't even turn on lights and sirens, but they slowly drove me.
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They took me to Kaiser, which was, which was, you know, where I had the insurance and part
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way there, apparently I flatlined and they started doing, at that point they started
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doing CPR.
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Then they turned on the lights, by the way.
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Oh, good.
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By the time I got there, I was, I was flatlined.
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Wow.
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They took over at the hospital with the CPR and took me in and the wonderful doctor at
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Kaiser, he, he knew right away that it was a brain hemorrhage.
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I don't know if he could look in my eyes and tell, I don't know how a doctor can look
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at someone and just know what's happening, but he knew.
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They basically drilled a hole in my head to let the pressure be released, revived me at
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that point.
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Anyway, they, they got my heart going again and relieved the pressure.
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Apparently there was so much swelling on my brain that it moved my brain and almost broke
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my brain away from the brainstem.
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It was that much blood.
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That would have been permanent.
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Well, that would have been death.
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And then what was your recovery like?
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Well they sent me to the county hospital.
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That's where they had the brain surgery team.
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Apparently they had been a, there had been a gang shooting in the county and someone
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had been shot in the head.
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And so that's where the brain surgery team was.
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So they called and said, we need to send her there.
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And they said, we don't have room, you know, MS 13 gang members and we've got, we're full
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up and my wonderful emergency room doctor said, this is a life worth saving.
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We need to send her.
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This is her only chance.
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And they still said, we just don't have room.
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So the doctor sent me anyway and I went by ambulance to the county hospital.
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So they, you know, had to take me in and they basically just sat me on a gurney in the, in
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the hallway.
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And you're still unconscious, right?
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Still in a coma.
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Okay.
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So I sat on a gurney there and the brain surgery team was in with the, the gang member that
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had been shot in the head.
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And as they were there with him ready to operate, the gang member died.
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So there they were ready for surgery, all prepped, ready to go.
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And they had no one to operate on.
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So guess what?
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I was here.
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I was sitting in the hallway needing an operation.
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So they said, well, bring her in.
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So they brought me in and they basically, they did what's called a craniotomy.
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That's where they, they basically cut you all the way open.
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They take part of your skull off.
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They had dug in, they took out about a golf ball size part of my brain to where they
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found what's called an AVM, an arteriovenous malformation, which means I had a birth defect
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when I was born, basically, or as I was being formed, you have an artery and then you have
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a vein and then you have a capillary at the end.
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Well I had the artery and the vein, but no capillary on five veins.
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So I had a mass in my brain that never got fully, you know, fully formed.
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And so it never had the blood in that part of the brain correctly, which is why apparently
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I had the migraines and these fainting spells, as the doctor explained later, were probably
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seizures.
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But back in the 60s, and there I go dating myself, they called them fainting spells.
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I did have a speech impediment as a child that I had to work through.
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And they said that's probably from this AVM that I had that was never diagnosed.
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Most people with an AVM in the brain just die when it bursts.
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So at some point along all of this happening, did you have what we call a near-death experience
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where you had an experience going to the spirit world?
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And if so, tell us about that.
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No.
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It was magnificent.
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I went to the most beautiful place beyond beautiful that you could ever imagine.
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Now to me, it was the most beautiful place.
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And I believe that everyone that has this experience and I believe everyone that passes
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goes to their most magnificent place.
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So for me, it was, well, the best way I can describe it would be kind of like a park,
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only no park you could ever imagine.
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It was, again, so difficult to describe.
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I'll try to describe it in words that you could imagine on earth.
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Yeah.
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Were there plants, colors, water?
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Tell us everything.
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Yes.
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Like a grass, like at a park, like a grass, with the most gorgeous, I'm going to describe
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it like an oak tree, but perfect.
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Everything, every blade of grass was immaculately mowed.
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There was not a blade of grass that had any deterioration on it.
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The oak tree was so beautiful and magnificent.
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No deterioration on any leaf, but just perfection and yet not unreal, just very, and very alive.
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And when you go to a place like this, you feel like you're one with it, you're part
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of it.
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The sky was the most beautiful color, not a color that we would have here.
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And it felt like the sky was, here you don't feel the sky.
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You don't feel the air, but there you feel.
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You feel, I don't want to say it felt like Jello because Jello's sticky and yucky, but
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it had a substance to it.
245
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,080
You could just feel it.
246
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:22,680
And I think if you've ever heard of anyone that talked about going to the other side,
247
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:30,240
they feel about the sensation of being like wrapped in a blanket of absolute unconditional
248
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,800
love.
249
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,920
And I felt that.
250
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:40,880
I felt like I was completely forgiven and completely loved.
251
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:46,520
And it just felt so magnificent and wonderful.
252
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,360
And I mean, the best feeling you could ever feel times a thousand.
253
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,880
So is there anything on this earth that even compares to it?
254
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:55,880
No.
255
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,880
Okay.
256
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:57,880
Not even close.
257
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:03,000
And you, were you hearing, smelling anything else besides what you saw?
258
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,000
Yeah.
259
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:11,160
I was hearing, you know, once you arrive and you're so overwhelmed with the feeling of
260
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,840
just pure love.
261
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:20,080
And I felt as though I was in the presence of God.
262
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:25,960
And God in the sense of God, Source, Universe, you can't describe it.
263
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,200
I've been asked, was it Jesus?
264
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,200
Was it God?
265
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,200
Yeah.
266
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,680
Everything, everything.
267
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,040
I heard music and that makes sense to me.
268
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:43,640
Again, I really feel like we get our own customized, you know, experience.
269
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,280
And for me, yeah, I'm very musical.
270
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,360
I studied voice and music for years.
271
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,960
And so of course it had music.
272
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,080
My heaven, my experience would have music.
273
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,400
Angels singing is the way I would describe it.
274
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,440
Just a harmonic, beautiful sound.
275
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:10,240
And I heard, I mean, yes, birds singing and angels singing.
276
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,160
It was, it was all at once.
277
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:19,920
And I felt the presence of, I felt the presence of animals.
278
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,640
And I felt the presence of people.
279
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,560
And I felt the presence of God.
280
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,760
And you feel as though you are one with all of it.
281
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:37,160
And what appeared in front of me at that point was this pathway, you know, kind of a winding
282
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,920
pathway.
283
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:39,920
And it was white.
284
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,760
It was pure white.
285
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:47,160
It was the most white you've ever seen, like a, like a bright light, so bright that you
286
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,920
would think it would hurt your eyes, but instead it was soft and loving.
287
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:57,240
And I knew that all I had to do was walk down that path just a little bit and I would be
288
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,280
here forever.
289
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,840
And that's what I wanted.
290
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,960
I learned some things while I was there.
291
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,560
I got a little bit of what I would consider a life lesson.
292
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:18,680
I learned that a few of the things that I had learned while I was on earth in my life
293
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,560
were not correct.
294
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:28,440
Some things I had learned, let's say from church, I learned, you know, I grew up Baptist
295
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:34,040
and I was taught that certain other religions were wrong.
296
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:41,080
And I was taught that it's embarrassing for me to say these things, but I'm open to share
297
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,080
them.
298
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,880
And so if you're okay with my sharing them, yeah, go right ahead.
299
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:46,880
Okay.
300
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,600
I had learned through church to be a little bit judgmental.
301
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:59,840
I had learned that if you were, if you were a Mormon, you were a member of a cult.
302
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:06,800
And I learned in this place that that was wrong to judge anyone and it was wrong to
303
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,280
believe those things.
304
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:15,160
I learned that if you were gay, that you were sinning and I learned to stop judging people,
305
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,640
that you need to love everyone and stop judging.
306
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:26,280
I learned that I needed to stop judging people based on their culture.
307
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:34,360
My father had been the teacher and principal at a school where I grew up in San Jose.
308
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:40,720
That was, I'm going to say 97% farm workers from Mexico.
309
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:46,680
And we traveled, I'm going to say most summers, we traveled down to Mexico because he wanted
310
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:53,640
to learn the culture and the language so that he could best work with his students.
311
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,760
And on those trips, we had some very bad experiences.
312
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,920
We were held up at gunpoint at one point.
313
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:11,360
And another time we had a bad policeman pull us over and take my sister and I buy the hair
314
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:16,200
and threaten to throw us into these cages with these bad people if my dad didn't pay
315
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,840
him off.
316
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,360
And so we had some bad experiences there.
317
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,600
And I did not like the culture.
318
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:32,760
And I learned that you need to look beyond culture, beyond, you know, I never had any
319
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,040
issues with certain races.
320
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,920
I've never been that way, but I did have issues with certain cultures.
321
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:46,160
And I learned to look into someone's eyes and see their soul.
322
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,240
Look beyond race.
323
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,600
Look beyond culture.
324
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,840
Look at their soul.
325
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,200
And I've been able to practice that since I've been back.
326
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,560
But I learned some of my faults, some of my weaknesses.
327
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,400
And I was given sort of a life lesson while I was there.
328
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,400
It was beautiful.
329
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,040
Let me ask you this.
330
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,320
You learned a lot.
331
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:16,920
Was it somebody there teaching you, talking to you, or did it just all come to you somehow?
332
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:22,960
It just came in as visions, as lessons.
333
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,600
There was so much information just being downloaded into me.
334
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,720
I saw that, you know, there was a line of people.
335
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:37,400
And I always thought that, you know, Jewish people had kind of a head start on us.
336
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,240
They kind of were at the beginning of the line because they had this blessing of being
337
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,760
Jewish.
338
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,160
And I thought, you know, they kind of went to the front of the line and I saw that there
339
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,000
is no line.
340
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,440
No one has the front of the line.
341
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,880
Everyone is in a group.
342
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,200
No one is higher than anyone else.
343
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,880
We're all together.
344
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,880
We are all one.
345
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:09,040
It was just a beautiful message and lesson being downloaded into me.
346
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,200
This is right.
347
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,320
This is wrong.
348
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,680
This is the way that it is.
349
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,720
We are all about love.
350
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,760
Everything is about loving each other.
351
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,520
And it was just beautiful messages being downloaded.
352
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,760
These are the things you need to know.
353
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,640
These are the messages that you need to receive.
354
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:37,640
And then I went back to this sidewalk, basically this white light.
355
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:43,400
And that's when I realized all I need to do is take a step forward and I'll be here
356
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,400
forever.
357
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,360
How did you not take that step?
358
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:48,360
Oh, I tried.
359
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:49,360
Okay.
360
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,920
Believe me, I tried.
361
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:58,400
And just as I started to take that step forward, my father appeared in front of me.
362
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:06,280
My father had passed, say, 10 to 12 years before and he appeared right in front of me.
363
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:07,640
How did he look?
364
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,400
He looked young and healthy and just beautiful.
365
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,560
My father had a terrible illness.
366
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:22,560
When he passed, he was just a fraction of himself.
367
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:31,160
He had an illness that over the years had just taken so much away from him.
368
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:37,160
And he was in very, very bad shape when he passed physically.
369
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:43,560
He had passed from basically from leukemia, but he started with a blood disease, a blood
370
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,560
cancer.
371
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,080
And they had given him six months to live when I was in seventh grade.
372
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,160
And he fought through this.
373
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,360
And I was 40 years old when he passed.
374
00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:01,680
And by that time, he had had skin cancer that had taken as part of his nose.
375
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,960
And he was like 120 pounds when he passed.
376
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:13,880
When I saw him, I'm going to say he was closer to 30 years old, the way he looked.
377
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,640
And he was healthy.
378
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,760
And he had his award-winning smile.
379
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:24,640
And he was happy and just looked so healthy.
380
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,280
And when he appeared in front of me, I was so happy.
381
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:35,480
And I just went to give him this giant-sized hug and say, I'm here with you now forever.
382
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,320
And he kind of stopped me.
383
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,000
And he said, it's not your time.
384
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,360
You need to go back because you have more to do.
385
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:49,480
And as sad as that made me, because I wanted more than anything, more than anything to
386
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,200
be there with him forever.
387
00:24:52,200 --> 00:25:00,200
And I still felt like, even though I was in this place, I still felt connected to my husband
388
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:05,960
and my son and all the people that were still alive.
389
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,920
And I felt connected to my father.
390
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,520
I could feel my mother.
391
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,760
I could feel my grandparents.
392
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,640
I was connected with everything in this place.
393
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:23,120
So why would I want to go back when I was in this phenomenal place?
394
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:32,160
But I felt source God, whatever you want to call it, and my father were saying, you need
395
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,160
to go back.
396
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,480
There's more for you to do.
397
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,000
That's not something you argue with.
398
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:45,680
If I am supposed to go back, if that's what my soul is supposed to do, if I'm on the
399
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,840
earth plane for a reason, I'm not going to argue with that.
400
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:56,000
Because as sad as that is, then that's what I'm supposed to do.
401
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,360
Did it actually make you feel sad?
402
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:05,440
Or because I can't imagine feeling sadness with all of God's love and everything going
403
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,440
on.
404
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,720
Did the sadness maybe hit you later?
405
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,360
Or I don't know, explain.
406
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:12,640
It's not really sad.
407
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,760
I guess I shouldn't say it's sad.
408
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,160
It's a giving in.
409
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,000
It's a, it was an okay, a determination.
410
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,440
Okay, then that's what I'll do.
411
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,200
If that's what is meant for me, then that's what I'll do.
412
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:36,320
So maybe not sad as much as a resolve of, okay, that's my job.
413
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,640
That's what I'm supposed to do.
414
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,720
Because you know now that this is where you end up.
415
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,720
And if this is where you end up, hallelujah.
416
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Yeah, let's go back and just be patient for a little while.
417
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,720
And also I would think if you are not feeling like you're being judged.
418
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,840
Let's just say maybe there's no judgment at all.
419
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,440
Okay, in the spirit world.
420
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:09,200
Then if that's the case, how would you be judging while going back is not as good as
421
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,200
staying?
422
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:16,680
You know, the judgment might have been lessons that I learned, but there was no judgment.
423
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,080
And the lesson that I learned was don't judge.
424
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,160
It was done so wonderfully.
425
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:32,880
And yeah, and I was so, I was also so anxious to think, you know, being back on the earth
426
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:40,480
plane with the knowledge of where I'm going is a pretty cool thing too.
427
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,480
Absolutely.
428
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,680
You know, most people don't have that.
429
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:45,680
No.
430
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,680
And you actually, and I always ask people this, do you have a fear of death?
431
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,400
I know what you're going to say.
432
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,080
What do you think I'm going to say?
433
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,560
When it's time, I'm excited to go.
434
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,720
I'm very excited to die.
435
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,800
I am not anxious.
436
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:07,040
There's no way I would end my life sooner because I'm here for a reason.
437
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:12,080
And I don't know exactly what that reason is because you don't get that knowledge.
438
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,320
You get ideas, but you don't get that exact knowledge.
439
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:23,560
But I'll take every day, good, bad, or indifferent that I get because I know where I'm going
440
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,800
and I'm very excited about it.
441
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:26,800
Yeah.
442
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,480
Was there any more to it than that?
443
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,600
Or at that point, did it end?
444
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:39,960
At that point, it was the only extra little thing I got was some internal, you know, blessings
445
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,720
to you, we look forward to seeing you again.
446
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:51,120
And it was basically that little black, you know, camera lens closing back up and I was
447
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,120
back.
448
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,920
That is just beautiful.
449
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,760
I appreciate you sharing.
450
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,600
What else do you want to tell us about it?
451
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:04,080
Well, I've had some blessings that have come back with me.
452
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,400
They didn't start right away.
453
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:12,360
It took me six weeks in a coma to come back from the surgery and it was because it was
454
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:20,040
an extensive surgery, I had to learn to feed myself again and walk again.
455
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:25,800
And, you know, it was, it was quite an ordeal coming back.
456
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:31,320
And then I started having some visions and some experiences.
457
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:39,240
And, you know, I guess once you've kind of crossed that veil and come back, the communications,
458
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:44,680
you know, between that side and this side are a little bit, a little crack in the window,
459
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,840
a little bit left open.
460
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:54,720
And so I have had the ability to understand messages that have come back.
461
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,040
So I do work with people that are grieving.
462
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Maybe they're in hospice and I talk to them about how wonderful it is on the other side
463
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,360
and that life does not end when the body dies.
464
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,000
And that's, that's been a blessing.
465
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:18,880
And I think maybe that's part of the reason why I've been sent back is to help others
466
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,720
face the reality that the body dies.
467
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:29,800
But the blessing to know that it's okay because we're not disconnected with those people that
468
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,800
are still here and we get to watch over them.
469
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:39,000
We get to still be connected with them and be connected with everything else around us
470
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,720
and how beautiful, beautiful it is on that other side.
471
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,720
So did you get a feeling just based on what you just said about being connected still?
472
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:54,560
Do you feel like your father specifically or others are watching over you now?
473
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:55,640
And in what way?
474
00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:02,920
I have had conversations with my father since I've been back and with my mother.
475
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,160
And it's wonderful.
476
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:12,040
It's wonderful to be able to have those connections and to have that continued relationship even
477
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,440
though I'm here and they're there.
478
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:23,440
You know, I may be even, I call these the drive-bys and I'll do something, have some
479
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:29,880
experience and I might get, as I'm walking down the street, I might get my dad come by
480
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,240
and just in my ear, I'll get at a girl.
481
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:39,240
I can literally hear his voice and I just love that.
482
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,520
It's just a wonderful thing.
483
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,280
And to be able to talk to someone and say, yes, I can see your mother.
484
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:53,840
I can see her there with you and I see that you had this that happened and she's telling
485
00:31:53,840 --> 00:32:01,000
me about this experience and to be able to say, your mother is still there with you.
486
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:09,320
And if you focus on it, if you pay attention, you can probably see her or hear her and feel
487
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:17,480
her presence and hopefully teach people that, that intuition, that ability to just quiet
488
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:24,480
their mind and be able to experience that themselves because everyone has that ability.
489
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,720
It's just the fact that we don't quiet our mind and listen.
490
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:36,560
We don't pay attention to it because every one of us has the ability to feel and hear
491
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,240
and connect with that other side.
492
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,840
We just don't pay attention to it because we're so bogged down with the here and now
493
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:45,840
on earth.
494
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,680
It's a noisy world out there.
495
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,680
It really is.
496
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:49,680
It's so noisy.
497
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,320
I mean, we just don't leave time for quiet.
498
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,280
We've got the earbuds going.
499
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,680
We've got the radio.
500
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,000
We've got podcasts.
501
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,360
We've got the 10 o'clock news.
502
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,480
It's just busy all the time.
503
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,560
And that's unfortunate.
504
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:12,480
One thing that worries me in today's world, I believe that we experience what we expect
505
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,720
to experience in that place that I call the in between.
506
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:24,320
And that's that place that you go just before you cross over all the way.
507
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:31,920
My experience was beautiful, fabulous, because I expected it to be that way.
508
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,280
Some people's experiences aren't that beautiful.
509
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,440
They may be dark or empty.
510
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,600
I've heard some very scary ones.
511
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:46,840
Yes, because they expect that because they don't have that belief that where they're
512
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,800
going is going to be fabulous.
513
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:57,080
And I see in today's society that there's so many people that don't.
514
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,880
And I'm not saying everyone has to go to a church, has to do this, has to.
515
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:09,520
Not everyone is meant to be a certain religion or certain, you know, go to a certain organized
516
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,520
religion.
517
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,960
It's not meant for everyone.
518
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:19,520
But if you don't have that positive feeling of where you're going to go, you may end up
519
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,080
in that in between.
520
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:30,600
And as someone who works with people who have, I don't know the easiest way to explain this,
521
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:37,040
but there are souls who never go all the way over.
522
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:42,080
I know this because I help some of those souls cross over.
523
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:49,840
There are souls who cling to the earth because they don't know that there's something fabulous
524
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,600
for them on the other side.
525
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:59,880
And these are souls who are afraid to cross over and everyone can have that wonderful
526
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:00,880
experience.
527
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,600
They're afraid of that love that's on the other side because they don't think they deserve
528
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,600
it.
529
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:16,000
Or they're so caught up in the physical experience of the earth that they think that's the best
530
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,000
that's out there.
531
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,160
And let me ask you to clarify some thoughts on this part.
532
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,200
We're talking about crossing over.
533
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:28,880
Are we talking about crossing over from somewhere around here to a quote, heaven, or to this
534
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,640
in-between place that you were talking about?
535
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,320
Were you in what you call the in-between place?
536
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,320
Yes.
537
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,320
Okay.
538
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,320
Yes.
539
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,160
People on this show, they try to describe where they've been.
540
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,640
And because heaven is a term that we throw around in this life, do you believe that that's
541
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:55,360
where they are or they are all in only a in-between kind of holding place like you were?
542
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,160
Which did they see during their near-death experience?
543
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:07,720
I believe that where I was was in the in-between that if I had taken that extra step, I would
544
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:13,760
never have come back because I would have been permanently in heaven.
545
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:23,960
And I believe that people go to that in-between place that is the experience of a heaven,
546
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,720
but not all the way.
547
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:33,760
If they experience an abyss or they experience it's because that's what they think they deserve.
548
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,600
That's where they, I do believe it is an in-between.
549
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,480
You don't get to go all the way until you are all the way gone.
550
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:48,160
And it would make sense that if people saw a place like you saw, they would call it heaven.
551
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,120
Yes, they would.
552
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,440
Absolutely.
553
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,160
Even though there's something beyond that.
554
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,160
Yes.
555
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,360
Okay, I get it.
556
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,720
That's my belief.
557
00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:00,360
And everybody has different beliefs.
558
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:07,080
And I just, you know, I find it fascinating to hear from different people and also from
559
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,080
different backgrounds.
560
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,960
You know, like you say, this was a place that was heavenly to you.
561
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,280
To me, it might be a beach.
562
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,400
To somebody else, it might be a mountain.
563
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,040
You know, who knows what that is, right?
564
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,040
Yeah.
565
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,960
And also for you, a heavenly place included your father.
566
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:25,960
Yes.
567
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,880
So for somebody else, they're not going to see your father.
568
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,120
They're going to see somebody that makes their place heavenly to them.
569
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:40,320
And I believe everyone gets someone they care about to come and get them.
570
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,920
Everyone has their own person that comes to get them.
571
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:53,360
So how about people that say that they see Jesus or Buddha or somebody else in that place?
572
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,760
Yes, because you all are greeted.
573
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,760
Same thing.
574
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:57,760
Same thing.
575
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:58,760
Yeah.
576
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:07,160
Because if they believe that there is Buddha, Jesus, then yes, they would see that.
577
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:14,800
And there is no reason that Jesus, God, wouldn't greet them and allow them to come.
578
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:15,800
Why not?
579
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,360
And that doesn't make him any less real.
580
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,200
No, of course not.
581
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,440
Just because not everybody sees him.
582
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,440
That's right.
583
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,440
All right.
584
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,000
I don't want to get too deep and too theological here, but I find this interesting.
585
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,080
So we're going to wrap up here pretty quick, but you came back a different person.
586
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,080
Everybody does.
587
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,080
Yes.
588
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,040
And I think you came back a better person, I assume.
589
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,480
I was a complete workaholic before.
590
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:42,480
Okay.
591
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:43,680
And I'm not now.
592
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,040
I'm more, I'm much more calm.
593
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,640
I'm more loving.
594
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,800
Tell me some of the ways that you changed.
595
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,360
Calm, loving, what else?
596
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,360
Yes, I am more forgiving, far less judgmental.
597
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:06,280
I make it my point every day to smile at strangers to, I know that sounds simple, but wouldn't
598
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,480
it be nice if we were all kind to each other?
599
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,840
You know, little things, holding the door open for people.
600
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,840
And it's not that I wasn't polite and kind before.
601
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:23,240
I certainly was, but I really make it a point to say nice things to people I don't know
602
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:29,520
about how they look or about, you know, people probably think I'm nuts and I don't care.
603
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:35,480
To just make someone's day a little bit brighter as often as I can, because what I learned
604
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:41,400
was that it's all about love and loving each other.
605
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:48,960
And I just look through people into their soul and I just find that to be just beautiful.
606
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:54,520
I just can see, you know, I just didn't give other people the time of day before really.
607
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:55,920
I mean, I was polite.
608
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:56,920
Yes.
609
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:03,320
But I just now look at people and look at everyone and I look at their soul.
610
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:10,440
I've had a couple of people recently who have emailed some comments in about the show saying
611
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,360
like, I know they mean well, but it almost sounds a little derogatory.
612
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:21,040
They say something like, it becomes such a love fest.
613
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,240
For those people, this episode is going to be about times 10 on that scale.
614
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,240
So hope you can deal with that.
615
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:29,880
I, yeah, let them, let them be that way.
616
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:30,880
Because you know what?
617
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,500
I've been up there and it is a love fest.
618
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:35,720
And that's what we're here for is to love each other.
619
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,920
And I know that when we get back here, it's harder to do that.
620
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,280
It is hard to do that.
621
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:47,000
There are a lot of very unlovable people in this world and it's very hard for me to love
622
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,160
people a lot of times.
623
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:51,160
But you know what?
624
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,760
That's what I'm here for because we need more love in this world because there's a lot
625
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:56,760
of yuck.
626
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:57,760
You know what?
627
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,400
There's a lot of yuck.
628
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,760
So I'm trying to do my part to have a little less yuck in the world and a little more love.
629
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,080
So sue me.
630
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,080
That's perfect.
631
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,280
Yeah, thanks so much for being on with me today.
632
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,480
Oh, you bet.
633
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:12,480
Thank you for inviting me.
634
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,240
And I love what you do.
635
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,040
So there's my love.
636
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,040
I love what you do.
637
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:22,880
I really think that it brings out some really important things because people are afraid
638
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,480
of death.
639
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:29,360
And it's, you know, it's, it's 100% guaranteed that it's going to happen to every single one
640
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:30,360
of us.
641
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:31,360
So.
642
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:32,360
Yeah.
643
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,360
Some people, their death is a round trip.
644
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,360
Most, it's not.
645
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:35,360
Yeah.
646
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,600
So if you had a round trip, eventually it's going to be a one-way ticket.
647
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:39,600
It will be.
648
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,600
And you know what?
649
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,560
Let it be beautiful because it's going to be incredibly awesome.
650
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,760
We just don't all know that yet.
651
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,240
I know it.
652
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:51,000
Looking forward to it, not anxious.
653
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,000
Thanks again.
654
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Thank you so much.
655
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,480
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
656
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:04,560
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
657
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,840
If you want to share your near death experience or if you have questions or comments about
658
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,360
the show, send an email to Eric at roundtriptest.com.
659
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:40,680
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
