Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome to Roundtrip Death, everybody.
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And welcome to our super very special guest, Louisa Peck.
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Morning, Louisa.
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Good morning.
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How's Seattle today?
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Dark and rainy.
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So it's good.
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Isn't that normal?
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That's normal.
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OK.
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We're going to jump right into your experience.
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And just to give people an idea of what there is to come, I'm going to read the title of
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your book because it's sort of a good summary of the whole thing.
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And the title is Die Hard Atheist from NDE Denier to Full On Woo Woo Against My Will.
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That's it.
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That's me.
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I'm a full on woo woo and I never thought I would be.
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To you, what does woo woo mean?
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So I think, so I'm also, I've had times in my life when I was lesbian and embraced the
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word dyke.
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And I'm an alcoholic with 29 years sober and I embraced the word drunk.
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And so for me, if people are trying to detract from you by throwing a name at you, if you
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own that name, you're like, yeah, I am a woo woo.
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Yeah, there are spirits everywhere.
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Thanks.
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And that's just how it is.
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And you take their power away.
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So woo woo is just my catch all term for one who knows that the spirit realm is real.
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And I think some of us look at the term as, okay, that person's kind of weird.
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I don't know if I should believe them or not.
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But yeah, admitting it upfront and not to the weird part, but I digress.
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Let's go back many years you were living in New York City.
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Give me a little idea of what your life was like and what led up to this night where you
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had a terrible tragedy.
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Okay.
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So I want to say first that I had been raised to be atheist and that was just how things
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went in my family.
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My dad really despised religion.
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He kind of inculcated all of us with that.
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So I went to Vassar and I did really well.
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What do I want to say?
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I'd been raised in an alcoholic home.
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So I needed constant affirmation and without tests and, you know, papers and so forth.
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I didn't know how to feel I was worth existing.
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So my God was coolness as kind of assembled from popular culture, whatever I thought at
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age 22 was cool.
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James Dean modernized to some extent.
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That was what I was shooting for.
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So I moved to New York specifically because the studio 54 was there and all the night
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clubs and what cooler place to be cool.
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So 1982, I'm 22 and my dad is a co-dealer and we do the cocaine that he has on our way
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to the Peppermint Lounge, which seemed to me the coolest of the night clubs in New York.
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And the bottom floor was New Wave, which was pretty new in 1982.
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So we were dancing and I was just starting to feel like I was finally starting to feel
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cool and good.
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And we ran out of coke and started coming down and stills like for me, you know, someone
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puts a finger on the turntable and slows the record down.
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It's just no fun anymore to just be me.
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And you know, alcohol is not going to be enough for that.
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So we had some cash and we started asking around the night club, is anybody selling cocaine?
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And this guy said, I am and, you know, it's just, they said in the dark back part of the
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night club, we bought a gram and we started snorting it and it did nothing.
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And my date being a dealer said, you know, we got taken.
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This is not cocaine.
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We're, you know, and I thought, well, it numbed our gums when we tested it.
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So maybe if I do the whole pile, it's just really crappy cocaine and I'll get a little
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bit higher.
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So I just snorted the entire pile of what I've learned since was lidocaine.
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So I got sober when I was 34 and made a lot of friends with former drug dealers.
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And those who heard my story said, oh, in the 80s, we used to cut cocaine with lidocaine
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because it was cheaper.
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And it sounds like you got sold to your lidocaine.
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So lidocaine poisoning shuts down your autonomic nervous system and your heart particularly
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begins to go slower and slower and you die.
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And people have died by just eating a tube of lidocaine ointment.
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But I snorted this whole pile, which had already lumped my gum.
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So it was potent.
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So my first sign, I told my dad I was going to the bathroom and on my way there, I began
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to notice I was getting kind of tunnel vision.
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I was getting a peripheral blindness where I don't know if you've ever almost fainted,
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but this kind of speckly stuff enters your field of vision.
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And I thought, oh, what a cool side effect of cocaine.
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I'm just going to hang on for the ride.
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When I got into the bathroom, it got worse and it began to seem dark as well.
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And when I was in the stall, I couldn't read any of the graffiti.
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And that's when I first realized that there was no air.
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So it felt to me like there was no oxygen in the nightclub because my heart was going
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so slowly that even if I consciously breathed deeply, no oxygen was reaching my brain.
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So I came out of there and I found my date and I was heaving my breath at that point.
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And I was angry rather than afraid.
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I was frustrated because how were all these other people not noticing that there was no
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air?
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And I said to him, there's no air down here.
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There's no air.
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And I had a sense of being like in this basement underground, in Greenwich Village, and just
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this claustrophobia and desire to escape there.
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So he took me to the bar and the bartender gave me a glass of water and I didn't want
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water, but just to please them, I took a sip.
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And that's the moment when my NDE began.
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So on this side, what happened was at that point, I had a ground wall seizure.
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I floundered all over the floor and then I had a cardiac arrest and the bartender began
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CPR with no luck for three minutes.
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I'm told that over three minutes.
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So here's what happened to me during those three minutes.
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So the first thing I felt was maybe the shock of the ground wall kicking in, but it seemed
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to me that something struck me under the chin.
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And for just a fraction of a second, I thought I had slipped somehow and hit my chin on the
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bar, but then it transformed into something like I like to describe it as a Popeye punch.
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So if character gets punched by Popeye, they go flying up in the air.
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That's what I did.
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And so I shot up out of there and that was exactly what I was longing for because I had
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felt so sort of claustrophobic down there and I had a vague sense of leaving Manhattan
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below me.
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I had a vague sense of like, almost like the, I wouldn't say the curve of the earth, but
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you know, the land as it looks from an airplane receding away.
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And as that receded, I thought, oh, thank God I'm done with all that silliness because
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to me, my life is Louisa had been just a bunch of silliness and I was glad to be out of there.
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And so I had what's called an amnesiatic NDE where you don't remember your old life and
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you don't realize you're dead.
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So I flew up into the air and I was going up into this beautiful clear blue sky.
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And under me, I realized soon was the ocean, which was also beautiful, clear blue ocean.
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I got this idea that I was going to do a swan dive.
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So I was a ballet dancer in my regular life and I thought, I'm going to arc back and do
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a fancy dive swan dive, even though I could not do that in real life at all.
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I did it there and it worked perfectly.
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And I was really pleased with that.
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And then I was diving toward the ocean.
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I'd reversed my direction and I had a thought, isn't the water like concrete if you hit it
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from a great height?
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And there was no fear attached to the thought.
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There was only, okay, well, we'll find out.
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I hit the water in a perfect dive and I went way, way down deep into the water and I could
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see the bubbles around me, but the surface was way up there.
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And I thought, am I going to get there okay?
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And the next thing I know, I'm surfacing and I'm like, cool.
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And I see the shore and it's quite a ways off.
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And I think, okay, I'm hidden there.
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And I swam like maybe one stroke and then I was there.
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I was wading out of the water and again, I had no, like, how did that happen?
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I didn't have anything like that.
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I was just like, cool.
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And I looked to my left and I saw this mesa on kind of a sea stack coming out of the ocean.
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And on top of it, there was an old weather worn blue house.
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And I knew right away that house has to do with me and I want to get there.
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So next thing I know, I'm not at the house, but I'm at the bottom of the mesa, which turns
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out to be a bunch of big rocks and they're covered with this grotesque, brown, putrid,
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just revolting slime.
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And I thought, what is this?
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And I thought, is it like rotten seaweed?
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I just thought, well, okay, I'm strong.
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I'm going to climb past this.
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It's not going to stop me getting to the house.
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So I began climbing with this sense of great capability.
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I had none of my insecurity.
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I had just interest and can do were the only feelings I had.
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So I climbed to the house, but when I reached it, I had unfortunately lost my body.
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What does that mean?
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It means that I was a subjective camera view, maybe an inch from the door sill with nothing
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of me that I could see.
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And I thought, this is really inconvenient.
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What a bummer.
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And it's not going to stop me.
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It's what I thought.
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That's funny.
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It's just an inconvenience.
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It's not sheer terror, what's going on kind of thing.
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Oh, well.
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Right.
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It's like, what happened to my body?
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It's not here.
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Oh, well.
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Right.
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As I crossed the threshold, the first thing that struck me was how intensely worn the
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wood was there with so many footprints going through that doorway.
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And I understood immediately that all my ancestors had crossed that same threshold, that this
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was our house, and we all went through there.
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So I did not know my ancestors.
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I still really don't, to be honest.
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I'm not an ancestry-oriented person, but on the other side, it meant everything to me.
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It was like, we, this is our house, and this is where we passed through.
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And I had a great sense of honor.
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At the same time, I could sense my ancestors watching and kind of cheering for me and being
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very excited to be unified with me again and united, I mean.
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And I sense them.
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I couldn't see them, but I sensed the presence of many ancestors.
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I'm one stood out who was my father's father.
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He's the only one who died before I was born.
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He died at 60 some of a heart attack.
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I knew him only as a photograph in the back of my dad's closet on the shelf.
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That's the only way I knew him.
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He did not mean anything to me in my Louisa life, but on this side, he was so excited
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to meet me and I felt equally excited to meet him.
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However, having no body was a problem.
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There was supposed to be an armchair where I knew that all my ancestors loved to sit
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and look out at the ocean.
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And I felt like this is no fair.
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You know, the arm, the chair is not there and I'm too small, kind of like Alice in Wonderland.
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I can't see out the window.
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I want to see.
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And as soon as I thought I want to see something else took control and it pulled me across
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the floor.
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I didn't have a body, but I had the feeling of my sternum.
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I had the feeling of it pulling from my heart.
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And I started kind of just coasting over the floorboards and I was like, Whoa, what is happening?
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I was very thrilled.
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And then it went up over the windowsill and out.
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So next thing I knew, I was flying over the ocean and the sun was setting directly in
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front of me and beautiful sunset sky of all these colors and then this path of gold coming
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over the ocean.
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And that's what I was zooming straight down straight toward the sun.
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I'm just going to interrupt myself for a second to see.
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My father had taught me that the sun was the source of all life, that all energy comes
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from the sun, all life energy.
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Okay, let me interject one question here before we get on to the next step.
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Did you have or even in hindsight, did you have any feeling of where you were?
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Would you call this a heaven place or a place in between or?
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It's an in between.
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It's an in between.
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And now looking back at it retrospectively, I passed through all the elements, air, water,
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wood, which is in Chinese, an element in Chinese folklore.
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And then I'm headed toward fire.
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That's interesting.
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Okay, keep going.
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So as I was zooming along and I was so happy, I just had a slight memory of my old life
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00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,120
and I had a skeptical thought.
235
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,320
And I thought, wait a second, people can't fly.
236
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,440
What's going on here?
237
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,400
I maybe I'm dreaming.
238
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,920
And I just asked myself the way you pinch yourself sometimes, is this real?
239
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:19,680
And as soon as I asked that, a voice answered me in telepathy.
240
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,800
And it was a very strong voice.
241
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,840
And it said more real than anything back there.
242
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,960
And I had not known anyone was with me.
243
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,680
I had not expected an answer.
244
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,320
Certainly I was just wondering to myself.
245
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:40,080
And yet at the same time, when the voice said that I had a feeling of respect, like this
246
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,760
is, this is somebody and they're right.
247
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:51,020
And so kind of acknowledged this is more real than anything back there in the silliness.
248
00:16:51,020 --> 00:16:54,840
And so the sun, meanwhile, is getting bigger and bigger as I approached it.
249
00:16:54,840 --> 00:17:02,640
And I began to actually see the corona on it and feel I didn't feel heat, but I thought,
250
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,480
am I going to vaporize?
251
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,320
If I get close to the sun, it should burn up.
252
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,520
But again, I had no fear.
253
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,560
And then before I thought I was getting that close, I passed through this kind of filament
254
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:21,880
or veil and realized I was inside the sun.
255
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,320
And in the sun was the light.
256
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,560
So you want to talk about heaven?
257
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,440
That was heaven.
258
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,320
So I could not see anything or hear anything, but who needed to?
259
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,320
I did not.
260
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,440
I had everything I could possibly want.
261
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,960
And people struggle so much to try to describe the love that's in the light.
262
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:49,880
But I remember being somewhat surprised that it was all through me, that it was not something
263
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,360
external to me.
264
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:54,160
It was all through me.
265
00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:00,360
The best way I can think of to describe the light when I think of it now is think of every
266
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,240
good thing you ever feel in life.
267
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,880
Like, oh, I'm so glad that happened.
268
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,240
Oh, I'm so happy to see that person.
269
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,520
Oh, I can't believe I got me on that test.
270
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,120
Oh, my gosh, I got the promotion.
271
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:14,680
Oh, this natural spot is perfect.
272
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,920
And we have it all to ourselves.
273
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:23,800
All of those feelings and just put them all together and multiply it by a million.
274
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:29,040
It's just such a powerful everything you could possibly long for.
275
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,240
And I, for the first time in my life, felt complete.
276
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:37,200
And I was very aware that I had been starving for this my whole life.
277
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,720
Again, there's a slight memory of being Louisa because, you know, all the hoops I was jumping
278
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,600
through, all of the trying to get validation.
279
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:52,480
Finally, I just was completely fulfilled and felt loved.
280
00:18:52,480 --> 00:19:00,760
And so I became aware of a being holding me like an infant cradling me in its arms, which
281
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:06,160
I am far from the only in the year to have this feeling I know now.
282
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:11,720
But it was as if it was a parent figure that was holding me and just pouring love into
283
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:12,720
me.
284
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:13,720
You are so loved.
285
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:14,720
You are so loved.
286
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,560
I didn't have a sense of gender at that point.
287
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:22,200
I had a sense that they were sitting on the floor and holding me and pouring love into
288
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,200
me.
289
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:29,680
And I loved the parent so much once I had recognized its existence and felt the love coming from
290
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:30,680
it.
291
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,560
And I just wanted this to go on forever.
292
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:42,520
And then the parents said in telepathy in that same strong voice, you can't stay, you're
293
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,280
not done yet.
294
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,200
And then boom, the light gone, absolutely gone.
295
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,120
And I'm in blackness and darkness.
296
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:57,520
And to make matters worse for a fraction of a second, I seemed to be dropping.
297
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,960
So I had, I threw a temper tantrum.
298
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,880
I felt like no.
299
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:09,760
And I felt had a sense of I'll show that parent that I'm more to deal with than they thought.
300
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,560
And I'm getting back to the light no matter what.
301
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:19,160
And then I got a little after echo message that just said, cased clothes sweetheart.
302
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,720
And then I dropped into this total darkness.
303
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,160
And I believe that was the point when I was dropping back into my body.
304
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:32,760
And I also have a theory about our body being surrounded by a kind of aura of anger and
305
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:38,400
fear that keeps us distinct for the purpose of free will.
306
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,440
But in any case, I began to just see against the blackness, these little white chalk figures
307
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:49,000
that were doing antics and cartwheels, and they had like, you know, a teeter totter and
308
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,760
a swing set and a jungle gym.
309
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,440
And they were like climbing on all these things.
310
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:53,840
And they were laughing.
311
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,240
And I thought, okay, well, I guess, you know, the parent gave me this to entertain me until
312
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,680
I can go back to the light.
313
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,480
But I'm definitely going back to the light.
314
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,240
So I just started watching them.
315
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,560
And they were saying these little rhymes like, you know, maybe you'd be swing slang or just
316
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,320
whatever, and I was listening to their nonsense and just kind of feeling like, okay, this
317
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,160
is Saturday morning cartoons, and I'm just going to hang out.
318
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:25,440
And then one of them got closer and the face instead of being a chalk outline filled in
319
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,080
more like a dinner plate, and he was getting in my face.
320
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,360
So I couldn't see.
321
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:35,280
And I was trying to like look around him and kind of feeling like, dude, you know, you're
322
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,400
blocking my view.
323
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:45,080
And then instead of his like hopscotch things to say, he was saying how many fingers, what
324
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,120
is your name?
325
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:50,800
Then I had this horrible realization.
326
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,680
Then I was back in the meat puppet that I was trapped.
327
00:21:54,680 --> 00:22:01,680
And I was back at this old game that was so primitive and so dumb.
328
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:07,360
And it just felt to me like if somebody told you, Eric, you're going to go back to kindergarten
329
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:13,120
garden, and you're just going to be there for, you know, another few decades and you
330
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,720
can just play with blocks and Lego.
331
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,600
And I just like, no, I can't go back to this.
332
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,680
And then I realized that he thought that I was separate from him, which even after only
333
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,280
a little telepathy I knew was so not true.
334
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,520
But I couldn't correct him.
335
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,920
He wanted me to make noises with my mouth and the mouth felt to me way far away.
336
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,880
I felt very much that I was in my brain.
337
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:46,240
And so I had a feeling about my, my mouth as if it were an underground garage under
338
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,800
where I was.
339
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,360
And I had some kind of remote control where I could manipulate it.
340
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,480
So that's what he wanted me to do.
341
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:54,760
So I did it.
342
00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:02,440
And I said to, for the fingers and I said, Louisa, I came to on the night on the floor
343
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,640
of the nightclub, this guy was the bartender.
344
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:11,840
He had been ceaselessly doing good Samaritan CPR on me and I had come around and I was
345
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,640
in a pool of water that I thought they had thrown on me, but it was just sweat.
346
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,680
And I came back into my body.
347
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,080
I sweated that much water.
348
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,080
Wow.
349
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,400
Let me clarify a couple of things.
350
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,320
You kept talking, you were talking about this guy.
351
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,840
Who is the guy?
352
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:31,840
The bartender.
353
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:32,840
Okay.
354
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,200
That's what I thought.
355
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:40,800
So, so there's some kind of interaction going on with the bartender, sort of when you're
356
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,520
out of your body and coming back in or back in.
357
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,360
Am I getting that right?
358
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:46,360
Yes.
359
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:47,360
Okay.
360
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:51,360
At a time where you're sort of in both worlds just briefly.
361
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:57,640
And I feel that all the people that were going on the play things on the swing sets
362
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:03,880
and jungle gyms, when I opened my eyes, I was surrounded by a ring of Gawkers like as
363
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,320
the whole nightclub was gawking.
364
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,400
And I feel I had been picking up their energy.
365
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,640
I myself felt as though I were five years old.
366
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:19,680
That was my mentality as would be, I would compare it to being a child of that age.
367
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:25,800
And I had sort of seen all of them in the same zone as children.
368
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,640
But I mean, I think that's my theory.
369
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,640
I don't know.
370
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:34,360
All I know is that she came out, he came from among those stick figures.
371
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:39,720
And when I opened my eyes, there were dozens and dozens and dozens of people around me.
372
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,720
Sure.
373
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:41,720
Okay.
374
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,080
Let me ask you a couple of questions about what was going on.
375
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,000
And then there's more to come after this that we're going to talk about as well.
376
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:55,760
In the sun, this parent figure, were you seeing anything or anybody or was this just all feeling?
377
00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,880
Was all feeling and knowing because I could only see the light.
378
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,880
Okay.
379
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,680
Please try to explain the love a little bit more.
380
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:13,760
So is that once a sensation of warmth and comfort, a little bit like if you lie on the
381
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:20,160
beach and you feel the sun on your skin warming you up, big stuff, that's going all through
382
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:25,240
your thoughts, all through your being.
383
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,240
It is just a love.
384
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:35,440
I don't know how else to describe it.
385
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,920
How do you describe that intensity?
386
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,080
Being alive in our bodies is such a struggle.
387
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,920
And I actually think it's an unnatural state that we are, you know, people have all these
388
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:54,640
theories about us being here on a mission or whatever, but whatever project the universe
389
00:25:54,640 --> 00:26:01,200
source God is working on has involved making us carnate.
390
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,480
And it's not comfortable.
391
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,280
It's when you're relieved of that.
392
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,880
I mean, I had been out of the body when I was in the in-between zone, but I think this
393
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:20,920
is the point at which I reunited with the source that is God, that angel that I now
394
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:27,280
call Ignacio is the one who pulled me across the floor and guided me into my source.
395
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,960
So if I had believed in Jesus, maybe that's what I would have seen, but for me, I believed
396
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,080
in the sun.
397
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,240
And so that's where I went.
398
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,440
All right, let's talk about Ignacio.
399
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,680
Jump right into it.
400
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:42,680
Okay.
401
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,720
I mean, you've got a name for him in everything now.
402
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,440
So I didn't get the name until the pandemic.
403
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:55,840
My first weird after effects were not him specifically.
404
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,520
I was in a dark place.
405
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,520
I had depression.
406
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,880
I rejected my NDE.
407
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,000
I wanted to keep drinking.
408
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:07,320
I wanted to go on as I had, but I shoving away this NDE was difficult.
409
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:15,840
And I was so lost that I went into a time of panic attacks and a time of depression.
410
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:25,120
And so my first weird after effect was seeing a ghost who I saw so clearly as a 19th century
411
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:29,120
fisherman in a Macintosh and everything in the middle of a storm.
412
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:34,000
I was walking on the beach in a storm, but then it turned out he left no tracks.
413
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,000
So that was the first one.
414
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,120
It just made me angry.
415
00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,920
I was just like, this cannot be, this cannot be.
416
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:45,120
The next one was foreknowing that my nephew was going to die before he was born.
417
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,680
For during birth, I didn't really know much about my nephew.
418
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:54,520
I just knew that my brother was going to plunge into this horrible, dark sadness because
419
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,640
his baby was going to die.
420
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,680
And knowing that was awful and when it came true, it was awful.
421
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Again, I'm still drinking and I'm heading towards my bottom, right?
422
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,240
I'm drinking more and more and it's getting less and less okay because I'm in my 30s now.
423
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,320
I drove home super drunk.
424
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,760
I was not living in Seattle then.
425
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,120
I was living in a long cabin.
426
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:20,360
My partner had left me because I'd been untrue and I was just reading the Kowski and drinking
427
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:26,600
and just scrolling in my journal obsessively about this boy at the espresso shop where
428
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:27,920
I worked.
429
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:35,600
And I got home after crossing this railroad overpass where I had seen millions of reflectors
430
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,480
and not millions, but maybe like six.
431
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,480
I just guessed and like headed for the middle and drove through it 80 miles an hour in the
432
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,480
dark just completely bombed.
433
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,640
When I got home, I got out of my car and I was holding onto the door because I couldn't
434
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,640
stand without it.
435
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:59,920
It was a starry night and my thought was, hey, and I drive so badass when I'm shit-faced.
436
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:05,520
And then Ignacio shot something through me.
437
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,640
It seemed like it came from the stars and I was so not expecting this.
438
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,000
It was a bolt of knowing that hit me like a bolt of lightning.
439
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,600
And he had two things.
440
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,760
He was yelling and he, but it's telepathic.
441
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,000
And the first one was, this is the last time I can help you.
442
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,800
And then the next one was, you do know right from wrong.
443
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,400
And well, I remember that so clearly.
444
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,680
I knew in my heart, he's the one who took me across the bridge.
445
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,520
And then in the morning when I woke up, I had done all kinds of things in a blackout.
446
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,200
I'd left a huge mess in a blackout.
447
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,080
I had no idea what happened after that bolt because that's when he pulled the plug on
448
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:55,760
the spiritual sort of life support that he was giving me, right, to get me home safe.
449
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,800
And after that, it was just my brain.
450
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,280
I have found that spiritual memories do not fade like my NDE.
451
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,920
Like anything spiritual that I have lived through, I can know it.
452
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,360
So it ruined my drinking.
453
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,600
Let's just say that I kept trying and it kept coming back to me.
454
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,040
You know, you do know right from wrong.
455
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,200
So when I finally hit bottom, I ended up calling Alcoholics Anonymous.
456
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,080
I was going to either drink a gallon of vodka or call Alcoholics Anonymous.
457
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,720
And I decided, well, if I drink the gallon of vodka, I can't call.
458
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,400
So I'll do that one first.
459
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,360
And I got sober on January 29, 1995.
460
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,920
My birthday is coming up 29 years.
461
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,880
So that was the first time he spoke to me.
462
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,880
Congratulations, by the way.
463
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:42,880
Thank you.
464
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:43,880
Thank you.
465
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:44,880
You deserve it.
466
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:45,880
It is.
467
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,560
So then he's spoken to me many times after.
468
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:49,880
Is this part of the woo-woo?
469
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,880
Yeah, this is.
470
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:59,080
But I was still kind of like, maybe I'm crazy, you know, but I'm not really having that.
471
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:04,560
Next I, when I got sober, I sold the long house and I went to Europe and I just had so
472
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,960
many serendipitous events happen.
473
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,680
Like he, I was getting ready to go and I had puted with my best friend in college and I
474
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,280
didn't know where she was, but it started telling me, you need to call her.
475
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,880
You need to call her.
476
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,880
And I didn't know this was as nausea then, but it ended up that she was in Greece also
477
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,200
for four hours when my flight was laid over.
478
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:34,160
So I got to see her and I got to make amends with her and like, oh, what I had done wrong
479
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:41,200
and turned out her mother was dying of alcoholism and I was able to talk to her about that.
480
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,720
Again and again, he saved me.
481
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,440
I wrote, there was a time I was just about to drink on the island of Paros because the
482
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:51,680
thing hydrofile was delayed and I was waiting at a bar and I was sitting there at this point
483
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,680
in my life.
484
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:59,080
I was quite a sort of stereotypical dyke and he said, talk to the people behind you.
485
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,280
And I was like, I'm not talking to the people behind me.
486
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,560
I've all I've had is a sprite.
487
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,520
And I don't know these people and no one and I could hear that they were very queer.
488
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,360
It was two guys.
489
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,200
And so he was just not let not talk to the people behind you, talk to the people behind
490
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,200
you.
491
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,400
So I turned my chair around.
492
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,640
Well, first I, yeah, I turned my chair and I said, are you guys friends of Dorothy?
493
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,000
No idea where that came from, but it's kind of code for Wizard of Oz.
494
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,000
Are you queer?
495
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,000
Right.
496
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,280
And they kind of went like Dorothy and Toto.
497
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,440
And I was like, yeah.
498
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,280
And so I joined them.
499
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:40,280
And the one on my right was sober eight years, pretty much ran AA on the island.
500
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,240
He heard from me that I'd called the hotline and they hadn't picked up and he was like,
501
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,120
Jessica, she's going to get some shit for me.
502
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,440
And then he took me all over to this beautiful tour of the island.
503
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:59,000
And at the very end, you know, he, he, I had a hundred days sober or something like that.
504
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,560
And I said, yeah, man, it's so lucky that I, I turned around and talked to you.
505
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,880
And he said, luck, how often do you do that?
506
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:06,880
Right.
507
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,800
And there's seven of us on the island that hold down AA.
508
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,920
And I have, he had 11 years, I guess it was actually.
509
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,080
And so I began to know, okay, I have this voice and I don't really know what it is.
510
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:25,880
But then the voice told me when my sister was dying that she was blocked from crossing
511
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,680
because she was full of fear and that I needed to describe the light to her.
512
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,960
And I was fighting it, fighting it, fighting it.
513
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,600
Finally, I described the light to her.
514
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:43,320
And 20 minutes later, she died, but I could feel her hovering and pouring the love.
515
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:48,400
And it felt like I got a little freebie of the light that she poured into me.
516
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,480
And then I began, okay, like this voice, I don't know what it is.
517
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,840
And maybe I'm crazy.
518
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,600
Maybe I'm like some kind of psychopath, but it seems to know more than I do.
519
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,400
So many people have had this experience.
520
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:07,360
I was at an intersection at night and the light turned green and he said, don't go.
521
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,360
And I was like, that's dumb.
522
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,360
I'm going to go.
523
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:10,920
And he was like, don't go.
524
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,920
He can yell.
525
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,360
I don't, I know how to describe yelling in telepathy, but he can do it.
526
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,400
So I looked in the rear view and there was no one behind me.
527
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,960
So I'm like, huh.
528
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,640
And then I'm like, how long don't go?
529
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,880
And then this car goes zoom through the intersection going a hundred miles an hour.
530
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,000
He saved me that way a few times.
531
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,400
Some of the more dramatic ones, I don't have time for all of them.
532
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,760
They're all in my book.
533
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:41,440
But one had to do with, I wrote my addiction memoir and my family hated it because no one
534
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,600
was reconciled to the fact that our father was alcoholic.
535
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,520
I also wrote about my weird things, which they thought that's what I call my paranormal
536
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:50,680
events.
537
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,640
They thought I was just making stuff up and trying to capitalize on my nephew's death.
538
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:01,640
And it's anytime you write a family history, family is going to be mad, but mine were soul
539
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,800
mad and just came down on me so hard.
540
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:10,640
And right after that was in the thick of that, I learned I had breast cancer.
541
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:19,160
So really the breast cancer was bad, but the family stuff felt worse to just lose your
542
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,640
first chakra of support.
543
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,840
So I was going to a lot of Al-Anon meetings to try to detach from them.
544
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,320
And I came out of one one day and it was raining really hard, this being back in Seattle.
545
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,560
And I was on top of a very tall hill, this being Seattle Queen En Hill.
546
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,520
And I remember taking a corner and touching my brakes and they're feeling just a little
547
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:40,520
soft.
548
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,760
So I thought, well, I'll probably have to get the brake pads replaced again.
549
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,320
Sometimes, you know, here comes Ignacio.
550
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,760
And he's like, get off the road, pull over, you have no brakes.
551
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,680
And I'm like, don't be silly, man.
552
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,400
I know it's raining and I have a hair appointment.
553
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,040
No, no.
554
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,960
And he's yelling again, you have nothing.
555
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,400
And I'm coming up on this big hill that at the bottom, there's a busy intersection.
556
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,000
And I have one more turn to make before I get to that hill.
557
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,400
And I see a sign in a weird place that says arterial turns.
558
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,520
And I'm like, is this where it turns?
559
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,800
And it's like, yes, yes, turn, turn.
560
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,120
So I turned and I had no brakes.
561
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,520
I could hardly hold the turn in because I was it was there was nothing.
562
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,200
My foot went to the floor.
563
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,880
And then I realized, no, this isn't the right turn.
564
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,440
This is just a tiny little side street.
565
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,720
And then I rolled slowly to a stop.
566
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:42,360
And I said, I'm sorry.
567
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:43,360
Thank you.
568
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,960
And I was like, okay, I'll never doubt you again.
569
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,560
If you tell me something, it's true.
570
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:56,680
So just to carry over from this, I had a party that fell very close to my 18th AA birthday.
571
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:03,040
And a whole bunch of my friends from AA had I had done good things for many of them.
572
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,280
And they came to this.
573
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:05,280
I made it.
574
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,440
I get to keep my boo party slash 18 years sober.
575
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,080
And my house was full of people and they started singing happy birthdays.
576
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,880
Someone had brought a cake and oh my gosh, it's hard to tell.
577
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:28,120
So as I saw the cake and all the smiling faces, I thought your siblings are right.
578
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,240
You're a freaking narcissist.
579
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:35,040
And that's why you set up situations like this where you're the center of attention.
580
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,240
You suck.
581
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:41,280
And then Ignacio came and he was kind of laughing.
582
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:46,400
And he said, this is the best part of life.
583
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,240
Just let them love you.
584
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,560
And it was kind of best part and whole point of life.
585
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,560
He was saying, just let them love you.
586
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,920
So I had promised him that I was going to obey him.
587
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:03,080
So I was like, you know, to go from I hate myself to let them love you and look in their
588
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,000
eyes and receive their love as I'm worthy person.
589
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,400
So while I was going through this struggle, people were also taking pictures because it
590
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,800
was a birthday moment.
591
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:20,440
And the next day in one of my camera's pictures, I saw this big orb right by my left, which
592
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:26,120
is always where I seem to hear him at the moment that I was going through this struggle.
593
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,240
But then I was looking at Facebook and there was another picture from my friend's camera
594
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:31,640
a moment later.
595
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,200
And there's the orb again, but it's moved a few inches away.
596
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,040
And I saw her picture.
597
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,320
I was just like, oh my God, that's him.
598
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:42,320
That's him.
599
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,320
A question about him.
600
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:51,520
So some people feel like they get direction in their life from the Holy Ghost or from,
601
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,920
oh, what's the term I'm looking for?
602
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,920
Oh, or from guardian angels.
603
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,480
And a lot of things that he did for you are like guardian angels.
604
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:04,480
Do you have a, do you want to put him under some kind of classification like that?
605
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,480
Definitely, he's guardian angel.
606
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:15,000
And he's sort of like, you know, the sun has shafts of light, you know, that are raised
607
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,480
and he is like a sunbeam of God.
608
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,960
He is part of God, but he is Ignacio.
609
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:30,400
And the reason I call him Ignacio is during the pandemic, I had just too much time to
610
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,480
talk to him.
611
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,160
And I had started talking back and forth and I was like, I don't like calling you angel.
612
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,880
Like angel is just, I don't like that name.
613
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,840
Like don't you, how can you tell me a name?
614
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,080
Not personal enough.
615
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,080
Yeah.
616
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,400
And he was just like, no, no, no, no, no.
617
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,880
And I just kept nagging.
618
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,960
I said, just tell me something.
619
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,000
Then he comes back and again, it's just kind of impatience.
620
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,240
And he's just like, little one, I have had so many lifetimes and so many names and none
621
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,440
of them are in alphabets, you know.
622
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:09,320
And then I was like, oh, I hadn't thought of that.
623
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,760
And so I still wouldn't give up though.
624
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,320
So I was like, just give me something, something, something.
625
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,000
So then he starts playing charades and I'm sitting down and I'm meditating and I keep
626
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,800
seeing an IG, IG and I'm like, I don't know any IG names.
627
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,400
All I can think of is Iggy Pop.
628
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,440
And he's like, what is Iggy's name?
629
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:30,440
You know?
630
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,680
And I'm like, is it Ignacio?
631
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,120
And then he right away puts an E under the I.
632
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,800
And so I'm like, egg, no, no.
633
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,800
And it's like charades.
634
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,440
And he's like, yes, yes, that's it.
635
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:42,440
I can feel that.
636
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,880
So then I googled it and it's an Etruscan name.
637
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:55,520
When it's Italian with the I, but it's Etruscan with the E. It means born of fire.
638
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,000
And that's where he held me was in the sun.
639
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,120
And so I'm like, that's what I'm calling you, dude.
640
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,760
He is okay.
641
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,560
If you have to tell me something, I'll take that.
642
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,040
You know, this, this just gets me thinking of all these interviews I've done, people
643
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:18,160
who have met beings in the spirit world, their introductions don't happen.
644
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,160
Okay.
645
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,800
Somebody doesn't come up and say, I'm so and so, you know, and you're so and so from
646
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,760
earth or something like that.
647
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,760
It doesn't happen.
648
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,600
So that's kind of an interesting take on it, how far you took that down the road.
649
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,160
So I asked him also, like, you know, were you my dad?
650
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,160
Were you my husband?
651
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,160
Were you my, you know, how are we, why do you love me so much?
652
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,720
Why are we connected?
653
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,760
And a lot of times I ask things like that.
654
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,240
And he says, little one, be human.
655
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:51,760
Not going to answer everything you want.
656
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,360
When we spoke before, you said something about how this NDE removed.
657
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:01,880
I think you said it like a filter that was blocking spiritual energies or something like
658
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,280
that.
659
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,280
Explain that.
660
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,600
I can read minds when I don't want to.
661
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,040
And you, this never happened before prior to heaven's law.
662
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,760
Heaven's law.
663
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:19,160
And so, you know, some are, or I know when something's about to happen.
664
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:24,680
So I wrote down someone's name on a clickboard before they said it.
665
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,840
And boy, were they pissed.
666
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,760
They just were like, how did you know that?
667
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,800
Have you been spying on me?
668
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:32,800
And I'm like, sorry, sorry.
669
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,160
You know, like crossing it out and stuff.
670
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,840
I couldn't explain to her.
671
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,280
And then I often know I'm going to see people just before I see them.
672
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,600
And I one time got very excited to see this guy that I hadn't seen in years.
673
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,400
And I thought he was coming down the right hand side of the street.
674
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,640
And then the last second I saw, I'm driving, that it wasn't him.
675
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:59,720
And so my inner skeptic said, ah, see, this is all of your weird things are equally explainable
676
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:00,880
in mundane terms.
677
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,760
You would have gone on and said, oh, I knew I was going to see Tim.
678
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:04,840
And then I saw him.
679
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,760
And I'm like, and then here comes the real Tim down the left hand side of the street.
680
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,120
And there's just no denying it.
681
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:12,400
I see him so clearly.
682
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:13,400
I honk later.
683
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,160
I connected him over Facebook and yeah, he heard the honk.
684
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:18,160
He was coming down.
685
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,720
And I hadn't seen him in years and years.
686
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:22,680
Another one was more embarrassing.
687
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,560
I pulled into Home Depot parking lot and all of a sudden thought of this couple that I
688
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,240
was friends with and thought, man, I bet they still have a really good sex life.
689
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:36,480
I bet sometimes they send the little girls to grandma's and they just go for it.
690
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,720
And then I saw her naked on a bed with her hair coming down.
691
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:46,600
She was kind of propped up on one elbow and it was like a four poster and she looked gorgeous.
692
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,320
And I thought, what's wrong with me?
693
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,080
You know, I never think of her that way.
694
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,440
I never even seen her with her hair down.
695
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,680
I go into Home Depot.
696
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,240
First I get turned around.
697
00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:00,760
I thought it was in Lowe's and went the wrong way and that killed some time.
698
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,520
And then I came back and I was going down the main way in front of all the cash registers
699
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:09,280
and coming the other way is that woman's husband Joel.
700
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,040
And so he's like, how's he going?
701
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,520
And I'm like, good, how's he going with you?
702
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,760
And he goes, oh man, we just sent the girls to grandma's for a weekend and we got a bed
703
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:25,880
and breakfast and he gets this big old grin and he goes, it was much needed.
704
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,000
And I wanted to say, yeah, who knew your wife was so hot?
705
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,400
And that was the one that happened in 2011.
706
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:41,400
And I finally Googled IONs because I was like, this is too weird.
707
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,760
And then in IONs, I learned that this is an after effect of an NDE.
708
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:53,920
Now some people have this after effect directly after like they come back and they not only
709
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,720
remember everything that happened to them, but these, I'm going to call them spiritual
710
00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,240
gifts they're given immediately.
711
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,480
Years took quite a while.
712
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:03,480
Yes.
713
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,480
Didn't it?
714
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:05,480
Yes.
715
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:06,840
And some people, by the way, don't feel bad.
716
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,760
Some people don't have any of this.
717
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:09,760
We're glad.
718
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,760
So, you know, I don't want those people to feel like, oh darn, I got, you know, I died
719
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,080
and all I came back with was this T-shirt kind of thing.
720
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:23,880
I think so again, I believe there is this kind of sphere encapsulating us to make us
721
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,160
distinct from God.
722
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:31,520
I like to call it a God phobic membrane in the same way that each cell in your body
723
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,600
needs a hydrophobic membrane in order to function.
724
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:41,200
If we were constantly hearing all of the signals around us, we would get eaten by a line like
725
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,200
that.
726
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,840
You know, we have to be focused on the physical world.
727
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,360
So we've got this kind of shield.
728
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:53,760
For some of us, it gets damaged when we leave it and come back.
729
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,280
Bruce Greason, who does a lot of research, he thinks it's something in the brain that
730
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,280
shifts.
731
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:04,760
I think it's something in our aura that gets literally like torn when we leave it and things
732
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:05,760
can leak in.
733
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,600
My, more often than not, my stuff seems to come from the left.
734
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,360
I know it sounds so weird, but I didn't go to Ions.
735
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,320
I went to Ions 30 years after my NDE.
736
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:23,600
What there was with me was both a loyalty to my father for atheism and alcoholism.
737
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,040
I just did not.
738
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:30,720
I knew I had this moment of truth the next morning after my NDE where either this was
739
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:38,560
real and I changed my whole identity or I come up with an explanation of hypoxia to explain
740
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:39,560
it away.
741
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:45,040
Though I knew it couldn't account for the, you know, the voice that I had heard or the
742
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:50,080
sense that it was more real or especially that, you know, you're not done yet.
743
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:56,680
But if I, if I acknowledged it was real, I couldn't keep drinking and the pull of my
744
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,240
alcoholic life was strong.
745
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:01,240
I was only 22.
746
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:04,000
Also, it was not near my bottom yet.
747
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:09,440
You know, I was still quote having fun, although it really was over then the panic attacks
748
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,440
began.
749
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:16,480
But when I made that choice to turn my back on the spirit world, as I said, my first
750
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,680
two paranormal events were dark.
751
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:27,320
That fisherman was as upset as I was and the sadness around my brother to be tuned into
752
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,320
that.
753
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:33,840
The turning point was when I stopped drinking and he did other things to get me into AA.
754
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:40,240
Like he got me into a relationship with someone in AA that I, I know I was steered by him.
755
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:46,400
It's another story, but in AA, I kind of had the scaffolding to learn what he wanted me
756
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:54,400
to learn also, which was that life is about giving love and receiving love and being useful
757
00:47:54,400 --> 00:48:00,680
and of service to other people and loving them as you do it, you know, not doing it
758
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,560
out of an eye and that's, you know, for real.
759
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:10,960
It's about giving from a place of plenty and leaving one, one, 90 ERI interviewed said
760
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,480
she was told it's about the wake you leave behind you.
761
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:21,880
Does each person feel better after interacting with you or do they feel saddened?
762
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,120
I love that.
763
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,560
And people that talk to me about their life reviews, that's something that comes up is
764
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:33,480
they get put in the position of the one that they affected and they feel that how they
765
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,800
affected that person.
766
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaking of, I have kind of a cool story, but get into that.
767
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,360
You and I talked about how you met Kathy McDaniel.
768
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,040
She's been on this show.
769
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,440
Drop that one real quick.
770
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:47,440
All right.
771
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,440
All right.
772
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,840
Well, you have to read Kathy, Kathy's book in Kathy's book.
773
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:57,000
She talks about how she kept hearing this voice that she wanted to prove was not real
774
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:03,080
and the voice told her she had to go to this Ion's meeting quite a drive for her because
775
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:08,960
she was going to meet a special friend there and she was just so huffy and she drove there
776
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:09,960
despite it.
777
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:15,240
And then just to prove it wrong, she got there super early and she sat on the end seat by
778
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:20,640
an aisle in an empty auditorium and she was like, okay, so show me.
779
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,280
So I walked in and I don't know.
780
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,240
I never get places early, but I got there early also.
781
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:30,000
And I dropped off my cornbread at the table for the potluck.
782
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,800
And then I looked at this empty thing and I thought, okay, I want to hear this guy.
783
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,440
It's going to be evidence of the afterlife.
784
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,080
Jeff Long, I want to hear him.
785
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,120
So I'm going to the front row, man.
786
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:48,120
So I start down and then I see the back of Kathy's head and Ignacio says, sit next to
787
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:49,120
her.
788
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,400
She needs a friend.
789
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,240
And so I said to him like, next to her?
790
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:55,240
He says, empty.
791
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:57,560
She's going to think I'm a freaking weirdo.
792
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,000
And he answers.
793
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,520
He says, there will be some anger, but love can cut right through it.
794
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:04,680
He didn't say anger.
795
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,720
He said, there will be some, I don't know what he is.
796
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,480
She'll react, but love can cut right through it.
797
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,760
So I'm like, okay, I don't disobey you anymore.
798
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:20,520
So I had to go past all the seats to get to her.
799
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:25,600
And I got closer and closer and closer and I sat down right next to her.
800
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:30,040
And if she writes in her book, she says it's a good thing I was sitting down because I
801
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:31,040
was.
802
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:36,480
And so she didn't say anything to me and I just said, hi, I'm Louisa.
803
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:42,280
And then at the break, she said, this, you're going to think I'm crazy, but a voice told
804
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,360
me you would be here.
805
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,520
And I said, Mike Lewis told me too.
806
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,120
And she was again, dumb counted.
807
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:55,920
So she, because she had come from gone to hell, she was very ashamed of her NDE, but
808
00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:00,000
she agreed to listen when I told mine the following month.
809
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,600
She sat front and center and was my look at this person because you're nervous person.
810
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:11,120
And I had a lot of dark stuff from my childhood that I decided to share.
811
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,680
And she heard that and she was like, man, if she can share that, I can share mine.
812
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,960
And we are good friends now.
813
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,760
I've been very supportive of her writing her book.
814
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:27,000
By the way, Kathy's experience for those that haven't heard her episode yet.
815
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,040
And maybe we'll stick that in the show notes.
816
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,800
It was about going to hell.
817
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,880
And then how she got out of there and super interesting.
818
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:41,880
And I think without the support of a friend, there were no dark NDE ears in Ions at that
819
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,120
time that she knew of.
820
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:44,880
She had to find them, right?
821
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:50,680
Because people were secretive and the voice guiding her to me and my voice guiding her
822
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:51,680
to her.
823
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:57,200
We became a kind of duo that gave us both the strength to share.
824
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:58,200
Okay.
825
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,600
Couple quick questions and we need to wrap up.
826
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,160
How often do you get direction from Ignacio?
827
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:10,600
Man, he goes sometimes for months or I mean, the weird things that were so weird that I
828
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,160
could not deny they were his would come a couple years apart, right?
829
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:20,400
And a lot of times I'm not sure whether it's my thought or his thought.
830
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:26,400
So I'd say the ones where he takes what I'm saying and says, no, you're doing the opposite,
831
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,840
you know, those come maybe once a year or every two years.
832
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,000
There are much more of them in my book.
833
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,880
I think anytime I want to pray and meditate, I can.
834
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:43,720
I'm moving to Oregon because when I came out of anesthesia from getting my hip replaced,
835
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:50,880
she put this image on the wall in front of me and he pointed out that almost all my interactions,
836
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,080
I was at the center of a hub and coming out for me were all my interactions with people.
837
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,560
He said, these are all virtual.
838
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,640
You did not have people in your home.
839
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,880
You're just, and he showed me, me and my home from above as this pencil scribble that was
840
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,760
just following where I went and becoming this dark black scribble.
841
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,840
And he said, and it's not good.
842
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,840
You need to go.
843
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:13,840
And so I'm moving.
844
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:14,840
Cool.
845
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,920
It sounded like when you were told that you needed to come back, when you were in the
846
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,080
sun, that you were not given a choice at all.
847
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,480
You were just told, here's what it is.
848
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:25,480
Is that correct?
849
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:26,480
Yeah.
850
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,440
And we're overriding a whole poison dose of lidocaine to make it happen, but you're
851
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:32,440
going back.
852
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,240
Yeah, and I've never heard of lidocaine poisoning before.
853
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,440
I can't imagine what it's like.
854
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,000
I don't know much about how the symptoms work or anything.
855
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,560
What do you make of the fact that some people get a choice of whether to stay or come back
856
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,680
and some people are just told you have to go back?
857
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,440
You thought about that?
858
00:53:50,440 --> 00:54:01,200
You know, I write a blog that I fund on recovery from alcoholism and it has half a million
859
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,840
views.
860
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:07,200
And I believe it has helped people.
861
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,480
And I've sponsored a lot of women and helped them get sober.
862
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,880
And I know that I have helped them.
863
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,000
I lived my life trying to spread kindness.
864
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:25,360
And I had a son, have a son, who is a gift.
865
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:31,040
I had a 2% chance of having him in vitro, not in vitro.
866
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:32,480
What do you call that?
867
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,840
Artificial insemination at the age of 40.
868
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,720
It's not supposed to work.
869
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:42,200
But I have him and he's a wonderful person too.
870
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:51,960
And I feel that at 22, I was so screwed up by my childhood that I had not given anything
871
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:56,760
from the gifts that I was given except greed-wise.
872
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,920
I had done well.
873
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,320
But it was just so much squandered potential.
874
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:07,680
And Ignacio was just like, you're going to use these gifts.
875
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,160
You know?
876
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:14,320
He was like, this is just too much to scrap it at 22.
877
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:19,160
So are you thinking that at that age and where you were and what your upbringing was, you
878
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,920
would have made the wrong choice and you would have stayed?
879
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,840
Oh, I was determined to stay.
880
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,920
And I hate to call that the wrong choice.
881
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,320
You would have made a different choice.
882
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,840
But you were sent back here because you had a lot of good to do.
883
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:38,280
And he knew he was going 100% against my will, but that's the case closed, honey.
884
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,920
Like I have made a ruling and you are going back.
885
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:46,280
I have one other thing in my notes from our pre-interview in quotes, kindness matters.
886
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,680
Where did that come from?
887
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:58,240
It's just if the whole idea of life is to leave this wake of goodness behind you, every
888
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,440
interaction matters.
889
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:08,760
Every interaction is a choice to either make some more God by making a connection with
890
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:15,800
somebody even just for a second, just even a smile, just any exchange of yes, we are
891
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:21,480
connected in some way by our humanity, by being alive on the planet at this instant
892
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:22,480
of the planet.
893
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,640
You know, I've had a lot of people die recently.
894
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:32,320
If you look behind me, you can see ashes from my mother and next to it, a little thing of
895
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:39,920
ashes from my ex-boyfriend who died in July from drinking, drank himself to death.
896
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,680
And I need to take his ashes to the top of a mountain to drop them off.
897
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:49,880
Anyway, it's a hard mountain to climb, three fingers.
898
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,440
What you remember of someone is the moments of kindness.
899
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:58,240
I'm throwing away everything from my mom, all these papers, all this stuff saved and
900
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:05,560
I'm keeping whatever, but no one remembers anything but your kindness.
901
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,600
What did Maya Angelou say?
902
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,320
People won't remember what you did, but they'll remember how you made them feel.
903
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,160
That's the gift you have to give.
904
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,600
Louisa Peck, thank you so much for being with us.
905
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,360
And tell us again about your book.
906
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:20,360
Sure.
907
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:21,360
Thank you.
908
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:28,640
My book is called Die Hard Atheist from NDE Denier to Full on Woo Woo Against My Will
909
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:33,080
and it's on Amazon in both paperback and e-book.
910
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,760
And you won't find another book with Woo Woo in the title.
911
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,040
Thanks again.
912
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,840
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
913
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:49,920
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
914
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:54,200
If you want to share your near-death experience or if you have questions or comments about
915
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,720
the show, send an email to ericatroundtriptest.com.
916
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:24,720
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
