Transcript
1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,400
From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
2
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:13,440
They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
3
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,120
And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
4
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,320
physical body because I was somewhere else.
5
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,400
The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
6
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,400
anything else to be felt.
7
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,520
I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
8
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,160
I'm back home again.
9
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:39,160
Incredibly safe and felt at home.
10
00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:41,880
Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
11
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,960
And a warm welcome to our special guest, Mike McKenzie.
12
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:45,960
How are you, Mike?
13
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:46,960
Hey, I'm doing good.
14
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,160
Thanks for having me, Eric.
15
00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:51,080
You are very welcome.
16
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,840
You're from the South, in the United States, from Georgia.
17
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,520
Do you love it down there?
18
00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,080
I do when it's not so cold.
19
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,200
I moved down here so that I could stay warm.
20
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,640
I'm originally from California.
21
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:10,040
And right now it's about 25 degrees outside, so we're expecting some snow.
22
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,920
So when the weather gets cold like this, I'm not a fan.
23
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,440
This California guy likes his sunshine.
24
00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:17,680
Well, okay.
25
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,680
I think you just said you moved there to be warmer.
26
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,200
I thought California was warm.
27
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,600
It was actually a little too warm for me.
28
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,880
We lived in the Central Valley.
29
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:35,040
And my gosh, we'd have a month where it would just be over 100 degrees and it was just unbearable.
30
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,680
So tell us a little bit about you, and then we're going to jump into your NDE.
31
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:45,280
Just to give our listeners an idea, you're going to love this.
32
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:51,360
This is not only a very unusual kind of death, but a really cool and beautiful story during
33
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,640
the NDE.
34
00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,240
Just tell us who's Mike.
35
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,160
So I was born and raised in California.
36
00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,960
We moved to Tennessee about seven years ago, I think.
37
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,280
And I was in the construction trade for many years.
38
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,280
And right now I am retired.
39
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,640
We do some real estate investing now.
40
00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:16,920
We do, we find houses and flip them.
41
00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,280
And we've done a couple of those out here.
42
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,400
And then we found some property.
43
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,840
We were looking for another flip, another investor house.
44
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,600
And we came across this property out in North Georgia that had 12 acres, had a couple of
45
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:30,600
houses on it.
46
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,080
The houses were just trashed.
47
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,080
But we moved out here, fixed them up.
48
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,120
And now we're living country life.
49
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,000
And we love it.
50
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,240
We've got a big meadow out front and there's deer running around in turkeys.
51
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,240
And it's great.
52
00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:49,000
Well, I assume that house flipping is a lot more difficult than it looks like on the
53
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,560
TV shows.
54
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:51,560
Yeah.
55
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:52,560
Yeah.
56
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,120
It's not a 30 minute episode.
57
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,280
It's, you know, they always have fun with demo day.
58
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,640
And that just cracks me up because they'll say it's demo day.
59
00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,680
I'm like demo, it's more like demo month or demo quarter.
60
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,200
I mean, a lot of times these places that we get, we're demoing them for, you know, weeks
61
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,240
and weeks and weeks.
62
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,320
I've done a little remodeling.
63
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,320
The demoing is not that fun.
64
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:18,320
No.
65
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:24,400
It's just like fun at first to swing a sledgehammer through a cabinet or a wall, but it's dirty,
66
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,600
messy, hard work.
67
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,800
And there's a lot of trips to the dumpster.
68
00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,800
Yeah.
69
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,200
All right.
70
00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,360
Enough about that stuff.
71
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,400
We're here to talk about near death experiences.
72
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,840
Let's go back a few years, about 20 years.
73
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,840
You had a very unusual health scare.
74
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,240
Tell us what happened.
75
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,240
Yeah.
76
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:44,720
So I was at my son's wedding.
77
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,200
We were like, we were away from home about five hours away from home.
78
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,720
We got there four days before the wedding was going to happen.
79
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,800
We thought we'd take a little vacation.
80
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,480
It was the last week in the summer before the kids went back to school, the younger
81
00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,880
kids and my oldest son was getting married.
82
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,600
It was in Ventura, California.
83
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,000
And so we drive down there.
84
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,120
We checked into the park and my younger kids were into baseball.
85
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,880
So they said, hey, dad, we're going to go play some baseball at the park, you know,
86
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:10,880
next door to the hotel.
87
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,440
Why don't you come over and play with us?
88
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,440
So I did.
89
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:14,440
We got checked in.
90
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:15,440
Went over there.
91
00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,680
We played baseball for a couple hours and, you know, here I'm swinging a bat.
92
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:25,200
I wasn't into, I did a lot of coaching, but it really wasn't into swinging baseball bats
93
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:26,200
like that.
94
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,240
You know, I'm trying to beat these young kids and give it my best.
95
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,480
And so my trunk was twisting quite a bit.
96
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,800
It was just an unusual thing for me.
97
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,760
So I started feeling sick that night, thinking I was getting the flu.
98
00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,000
Thursday night, I started getting, I was getting worse.
99
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,480
And of course, Friday night, we had the rehearsal dinner and I was feeling pretty miserable
100
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:48,480
by then.
101
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,160
I was running a fever.
102
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:56,760
I took a trip down to the quick stop middle of the night, got some Tylenol and, you know,
103
00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,760
thinking that that would cut the pain.
104
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:04,240
I was having some pain in my stomach, but nothing crazy, but my fever was getting pretty
105
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,240
bad.
106
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,040
So the day of the wedding, the night before, I didn't sleep at all.
107
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,760
I mean, not, not one bit.
108
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:17,160
So the day of the wedding here, I'm, I'm walking in, I'm, I'm looking pale by now.
109
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,920
I'm really tired, but is my son's big day.
110
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,800
It was, it was the first wedding for our family, you know, his first kid to get married.
111
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,200
And so I just, I just thought, you know, I'm getting the flu.
112
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,360
I don't want to be a distraction.
113
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,440
I just tried to play it off as no big deal.
114
00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:37,200
But then at the end of the night, the bride comes up to us and she says, Hey, we're going
115
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,200
to go to my parents' house.
116
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,200
They lived in Ventura too.
117
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,080
They had a beautiful house overlook the ocean.
118
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,760
And she says, we're going to take the presence out there and open up presence.
119
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,680
And you know, some of the guests are going to come and keep the party going kind of thing.
120
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,840
And I said, guys, I got to get checked out.
121
00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,720
You know, I need, I need to go find out what's going on.
122
00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:56,720
Cause here I am.
123
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,560
This is no, no sleep for 24 hours.
124
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:04,380
But now I'm sweating and I'm feeling miserable, but I still thought it had the flu.
125
00:06:04,380 --> 00:06:05,920
And so my son was in the medical field.
126
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,200
He told me what hospital to go to.
127
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,160
So we go there into the ER and of course, you know, Saturday night it's packed.
128
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,960
So I sat down and I'm just like, like, I don't know if I was falling asleep, waiting for
129
00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:23,400
a, you know, to be seen or in and out of consciousness because I was miserable by then.
130
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,440
The nurse calls me back in and she kind of poked around and she asked, you know, what,
131
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,440
what's going on.
132
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,240
And they took a little blood test, send it off to the lab.
133
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,540
She says, I think it's your appendix.
134
00:06:36,540 --> 00:06:37,540
And I kind of laughed.
135
00:06:37,540 --> 00:06:39,400
I said, nah, it's the, you know, I just got the flu.
136
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:40,400
Just give me something.
137
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:41,400
I'll go home here.
138
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,800
You know, there's me, stupid me telling her the nurse, what's going on with me.
139
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:46,800
Right.
140
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,360
She says, no, I think it's your appendix.
141
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,960
And she starts poking around in my abdomen.
142
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,760
She asked me, does any of that hurt?
143
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,440
And I said, no, it doesn't, you know, which was unusual.
144
00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,240
Cause usually, you know, if you have appendicitis, you're, you have that point tenderness that
145
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,360
they always say, you know, you poke on a certain spot and it hurts.
146
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,640
So she takes out a little mallet that they check your reflexes with on your knee and
147
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:11,640
she pokes it.
148
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:16,480
She taps the bottom of my foot and she says, does that, does that hurt?
149
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,360
And again, I laughed and I go, no, she tapped the other foot.
150
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,280
I can't remember if it was right or left, but the, when she tapped the other side of
151
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:29,120
my foot, I shot pain right into my abdomen and I screamed and she says, okay, that's
152
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:30,120
your appendix.
153
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,800
I'm going to call a surgeon.
154
00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,560
You know, so now my wife and I are thinking, you know, what are we going to do with the
155
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:36,560
kids?
156
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,680
The kids got to go back to school on Tuesday and this is Saturday night.
157
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,240
She says, if, if it's not ruptured, you'll be here for a day or two.
158
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,320
And if it has ruptured, you'll be here for three or four.
159
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,760
So we're thinking, okay, well, we'll send the kids home with grandparents, you know,
160
00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,920
worked out all the, all the logistics and surgeon comes in about probably a half an hour later.
161
00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,160
He looks at the blood test and he goes, yeah, I think it's your, it's definitely your appendix.
162
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,440
I, I think it's probably ruptured.
163
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:10,160
He says, did you do any, like physical activity, any unusual physical activity?
164
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,320
And I thought back to playing baseball and I said, yeah, played baseball Wednesday.
165
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:20,000
And I mean, he looked at me like Wednesday and this is Saturday night, you know, that's
166
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,440
like three days, three and a half days.
167
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,640
And he goes, well, we need to get you into surgery pretty quick.
168
00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,720
So they start an IV.
169
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:33,120
They, you know, wheel me down the hall as soon as they throw up in the doors to the
170
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,760
surgical room, they start pushing or pulling me over to the table.
171
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,240
I'm kind of squatting over there.
172
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,800
You know, it's freezing cold in there and that surgical table felt like it was like tiny,
173
00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,800
like I was going to fall off.
174
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:51,920
And so I'm trying to find out what to do with my hands and I put my hands on my chest and
175
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,880
I looked to my right and there's Jesus standing there.
176
00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:02,480
In a white robe and he holds out his hand and like now everything else just kind of
177
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,320
disappeared.
178
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:10,400
It was like, it was like the surgeon walking in to do my surgery, but it's Jesus and he
179
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,440
holds out his hand and he says, I want to answer your prayer.
180
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,120
And I thought, what is going on here?
181
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,360
You know, my, what my prayer, you know, I just, it, it, I was so confused, didn't make sense.
182
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,160
And I'm looking around the rest of the room trying to figure out where is everybody.
183
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,000
Just all kind of turned white and fuzzy.
184
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,200
And so, you know, all these thoughts are going through my head like, like am I dead?
185
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,760
Like what, what the heck's going on?
186
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:37,760
And what prayer?
187
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:38,880
It didn't make sense to me.
188
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:47,080
So I take his hand as soon as I touch his hand, we're instantly standing on what looks
189
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,520
like to be a mountain or a hill.
190
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,520
I look below me.
191
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,080
There's, there's beautiful green grass.
192
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,800
Just perfectly manicured grass.
193
00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,840
My senses were heightened to the point where I could count every single blade of grass
194
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,880
touching the bottom of my feet.
195
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,200
It was the weirdest thing.
196
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,760
Like I knew exactly how many blades of grass there were, but everything else around me
197
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,480
was white in front of me.
198
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,640
Everything was just super white.
199
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,320
And so I'm trying to adjust my eyes and see because I can see the grass, but I can't see
200
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,320
anything else.
201
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:18,680
I'm still holding Jesus hand.
202
00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:23,320
I, I noticed that I'm wearing the hospital gown, the same thing that I was wearing in
203
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,480
surgery and I'm looking at my bare feet.
204
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:31,360
I'm looking at his bare feet, you know, standing on this grass, but everything else is white.
205
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:36,360
And I'm kind of like rubbing my eyes like, like, why can't I see everything super white?
206
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:43,600
And then off to like my right, just a little bit to my right, there's this round light.
207
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,480
It looks like it's basketball shape, like size, you know, but it's way off in the
208
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,520
distance and it's wider than the rest of the white.
209
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,560
It's almost like shimmering.
210
00:10:54,560 --> 00:11:01,040
It's like a, it's like a light bulb, but it's just glowing and it's just, it's, it's amazing
211
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,040
looking.
212
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,320
And then all of a sudden out of this, out of this round light, it starts shooting these
213
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,960
things that look like fluorescent light tubes, but they're about two feet long.
214
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,280
They're a little bit fatter than a fluorescent tube.
215
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:21,760
They're all smooth and they're kind of shimmering the same color as that, as that round light
216
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,880
and they're coming, they start coming by me and I can see them going through the white
217
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,560
and it almost looks like fog, like super thick fog.
218
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,400
And I can see them one after another, after another, pretty soon they start coming a little
219
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:34,400
bit faster.
220
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:40,480
One of them starts coming at my head and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, well, you know, should
221
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:41,480
I dock?
222
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,160
And, you know, and while I'm thinking of that, it just hits me right here, right above my
223
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,160
right eye.
224
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:51,800
And as it goes through my head, it makes this like light buzzing sound and it warmed me
225
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,560
all the way down to my toes.
226
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:57,680
Like instantly, I just felt warmth.
227
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:05,000
I look back at, at the basketball size light, the shimmering glowing light and now it's
228
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:10,040
like somebody took a curtain, like a giant curtain on a stage and pulls it from my right
229
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,040
to my left.
230
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:17,480
And so this white is now replaced by a beautiful scenery.
231
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,960
And I look below me, now I can see the grass, below the grass down, down this hill.
232
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,880
I'm, I realize I'm standing on a mountain, pretty good sized mountain.
233
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,520
There are like these beautiful little flowers.
234
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,640
They look like sweet peas, but they're pastel colors.
235
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:41,440
There's purples and blues and greens and, and, you know, some oranges and pinks.
236
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,440
They're just beautiful.
237
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:43,840
And they're kind of doing this.
238
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:49,600
They're kind of like, like they're, they're being blown by a soft wind, but there's no
239
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:50,600
wind.
240
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,600
I don't, I don't feel any wind.
241
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:57,160
So it was almost like they were dancing at the bottom of this, of the flower hill.
242
00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,720
There's a great big city.
243
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,480
But the only thing I can see of the city because this curtain of fog that was pulled in front
244
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,120
of me is now laying on top of the city.
245
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:14,480
So I see these, these buildings, the roofs are sticking through the fog, but all I can
246
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,240
see is the roofs.
247
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,920
So right about in the middle, there's this great big gold.
248
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,920
It looks like a capital dome and it's huge.
249
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,680
It's like, it's just huge way bigger than the rest of the buildings.
250
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:29,760
There are some other capital looking buildings.
251
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,760
They're smaller.
252
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:31,760
Some of them are gold.
253
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,320
Some of them are white.
254
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,440
And then there's also these, these, what looks like to be church steeples and most of them
255
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:44,800
are white and they're sticking through this, this, this cloud layer or this fog layer,
256
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,600
something I thought that was a little unusual.
257
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,440
I kind of looked into it later.
258
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,800
But the top of those, you know, at the top of the church steeples that we see around
259
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,160
here and I'm in the, I'm in the South.
260
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,160
So they're everywhere.
261
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,560
There's a lot of old churches.
262
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:02,240
They all have crosses at the top, but there were no crosses on the top of these, which
263
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,480
I thought was kind of strange.
264
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:11,120
And then on the other side of the city, there's another great big mountain and it's covered
265
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,960
in these pine trees, but the pine trees are perfect, perfect shape.
266
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,880
They're a beautiful green.
267
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,840
They're like, they have these like dainty pine needles on them.
268
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:28,320
They're, they're sort of moving a little bit, but in that, not, not as much as the flowers
269
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,920
are in front of me.
270
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:35,200
And then above that there's, it looks like the most beautiful sunset that I've ever seen,
271
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,800
but there was no sun.
272
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:41,720
So above the trees, there's like reds and oranges and yellows.
273
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,680
And then above that it's kind of blends into these greenish blue and then there's very
274
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,720
bright blue at the top.
275
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:55,480
And there's a few, it's some kind of like white clouds, but not billowy clouds or just
276
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,480
sort of, I don't know.
277
00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,520
I think down here we call them cirrus clouds.
278
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,760
They're sort of long and skinny and wispy looking.
279
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:11,400
Now these light beams that were coming at me are now going across the city and one of
280
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:17,840
them hits the tip of a tree and it's like it had a diamond on the tip because when that
281
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:25,440
light beam hit that diamond on the tip, it burst into hundreds of tiny little, little
282
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,160
white light beams.
283
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,120
It was like fireworks, but they were all white, just this brilliant shimmering white.
284
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:37,240
And pretty soon there's more of them hitting the tips of the trees and there's just like
285
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,240
pops of these, this white going everywhere.
286
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,000
It's like there's a, there's a bright white fireworks show.
287
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,000
I mean, it's not, there's no popping or sound.
288
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,800
It's just like boom, boom, boom, you know, all over and the sky is just filled with this
289
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,400
light everywhere.
290
00:15:53,400 --> 00:16:00,840
I look back at the source where they were coming from that basketball shaped sized light, that
291
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,840
shimmering light that's sending these beams and Jesus says to me, it's the glory of the
292
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:07,840
Lord.
293
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:13,480
And when he said that, I was just overcome with emotion.
294
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,760
My knees got weak and I fell to the ground on my knees and the instant my knees hit the
295
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,960
ground, they shocked me and they brought me back.
296
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:28,840
So now instead of this beautiful scene, I see a doctor leaning over me wearing a mask
297
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,720
and he says, do you know your name?
298
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:37,840
And I answered him, Mike, but I answered in my head.
299
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,040
I was, I didn't verbalize.
300
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,520
And so he looks at me again, he's looking pretty concerned.
301
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,760
He says, do you know your name?
302
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,920
And I thought, oh, I didn't, I didn't move my mouth to talk.
303
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,920
So my mouth was so dry.
304
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,120
I was finally able to get the word out, Mike.
305
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,440
And he says, good, do you know where you are?
306
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,800
And now I'm thinking back, I think, man, I think I was just in heaven.
307
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:02,800
Where's Jesus?
308
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,880
You know, but I'm thinking, okay, we went through the wedding.
309
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:07,880
I'm in Ventura.
310
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,640
So I was able to say Ventura.
311
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:11,760
And he says, okay, good.
312
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,120
And he turns around and now I realize there's other people in the room.
313
00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:18,760
There's other people wearing some scrubs and blue scrubs.
314
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,480
And he says, he's back.
315
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,680
And he says, let's get him up to intensive care.
316
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,480
So they wheeled me back up.
317
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,880
After that, I spent four days in intensive care and I developed an abscess.
318
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,160
So we had some complications to deal with, but I spent 12 days in the hospital and I
319
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,160
got out.
320
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,680
Now, the next morning, one other thing I want to tell you before you have a question for
321
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:42,800
me here.
322
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,560
The next morning, the surgeon comes in and he says, hey, I heard we had a little episode.
323
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:48,640
How are you feeling?
324
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,120
And I said, I'm okay.
325
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:51,120
I'm pretty weak.
326
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,760
You know, I couldn't lift my hands off my chest as I'm laying there.
327
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,160
And he says, yours was the worst case I've ever seen.
328
00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,160
And I said, what?
329
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,160
You're kidding.
330
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,160
And he says, no.
331
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,680
And he gets done looking at the stitches and all that.
332
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,640
And he says, I'll be back in a little bit.
333
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,840
And he turns around, he comes back in and he says, oh, yeah, what I said there, it wasn't
334
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,640
exactly true.
335
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,720
Yours was the worst case I've ever seen where the patient lived.
336
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,640
And I said, well, thank you for saving my life.
337
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,200
And he says, you're welcome.
338
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,080
And then he said, God's not done with you yet.
339
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,080
That's pretty amazing.
340
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,580
Wow.
341
00:18:26,580 --> 00:18:30,440
I'm not sure where to start.
342
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,440
That's amazing.
343
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,920
Thank you for sharing that.
344
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:33,920
Okay.
345
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,840
Let's start kind of from the beginning.
346
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:42,760
So when you looked over and saw Jesus, it sounds like you had just gotten on the operating
347
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,960
table and it doesn't matter if the timeline is perfect here.
348
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:53,120
I'm just curious, if you have a feeling, was it the beginning of surgery or end of surgery
349
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:57,720
where your heart actually stopped and they brought you back?
350
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,760
That part I've never been clear on.
351
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:06,120
I think that he showed up before anything happened, before surgery started.
352
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,320
I've had people say, well, maybe it was the drugs.
353
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,880
They didn't even give me any drugs.
354
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,240
I don't remember them putting the mask on and counting down.
355
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,480
Before surgery, they usually do that.
356
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,160
I just remembered there was Jesus.
357
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:26,920
And it had to have been at least two hours because he showed up before surgery and then
358
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,800
when they brought me back, I was done.
359
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,480
I mean, they didn't wheel me back into surgery or say, hey, we need to stitch you up.
360
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,480
It was done.
361
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,720
And that doctor had gone home.
362
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,480
The surgeon had gone home.
363
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,280
I did ask about that later.
364
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,400
You know, I said, where's the guy's name was Dr. Owaziek.
365
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,000
I said, where's Dr. I?
366
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,560
And they said, he's gone.
367
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:50,560
He's home.
368
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,120
So you felt like you were with Jesus for a long time?
369
00:19:54,120 --> 00:20:00,440
It was a long time, but to me, it just seemed like 15 minutes.
370
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,240
It didn't seem like that long at all.
371
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,080
How did you know it was him?
372
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,400
You know, I get asked that a lot.
373
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,920
There's a couple of ways I could answer that.
374
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,560
The easiest way is, I always say, when the Savior of the world stands in front of you,
375
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:14,560
you'll know.
376
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,400
I knew it was Jesus.
377
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,680
But the way He said, I want to answer your prayer, you know, people have said, well, maybe
378
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:27,280
it was your spirit leader or, you know, everybody has their different theories about it.
379
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,080
But to me, Jesus answers prayers.
380
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:37,600
And one of the things that I found out later that I found out, but I realized later was
381
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,760
the prayer that He was answering was, as a kid, I used to pray that I could see heaven.
382
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,720
Because my grandfather passed away when I was very young.
383
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,160
And at his funeral, they were saying, you know, grandpa's in heaven.
384
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,160
He's no more pain.
385
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,760
He's, you know, there's no tears.
386
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,040
You know, he's in a better place.
387
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,080
And as a kid, I remember thinking, man, that sounds like a great place.
388
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,200
I want to see this place.
389
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,600
So, you know, I'm starting to learn about God and I started praying.
390
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:02,600
Can you show me heaven?
391
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,400
I mean, I don't really want to die, but can you show me heaven?
392
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,840
I think it's so cool that He took your hand and was holding your hand.
393
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,840
Yeah.
394
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,920
I've interviewed hundreds of people and some that have seen Jesus.
395
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:23,640
And back to my first question, I don't think anybody's ever told me that they were introduced
396
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:24,640
to Him.
397
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,200
They just automatically knew who it was, which makes sense to me.
398
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,280
It didn't need to be verbal communication of that.
399
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:32,280
Yeah.
400
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:40,920
So, the white, round, shimmering light thing that you said is the glory of God.
401
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,760
Can you explain that any further?
402
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:48,720
I actually think what He was talking about was, and this is, you know, this is something
403
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,280
else that, okay, as a kid, I used to pray that I could see the glory of God because
404
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,920
we used to watch this show, the Charlie Brown Christmas special.
405
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:02,000
And I remember, you know, back in those days, you couldn't stream it.
406
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,840
You know, you had to gather around with the family at seven o'clock on Tuesday night.
407
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:12,520
And I remember laying there on the floor one time watching that show and Linus comes out
408
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,280
holding his blanket and everything's quiet.
409
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:20,040
And he says, you know, he tells that story from Luke and he says the glory of the Lord
410
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,560
showed all around them.
411
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:27,560
And he used to think, wow, God made heaven and earth and everything that I know and
412
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,200
everything that I interact with, what must his glory look like?
413
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,560
That had to be pretty special.
414
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,480
And I used to ask him, hey, can you show me heaven? and then later as a kid, I'd say,
415
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,320
can you show me the glory of the Lord?
416
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:45,000
So one of the things that I found out later, I was reading the Bible a couple years after
417
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:50,640
my NDE and in Revelation, it says heaven doesn't need to be lit by the sun because it's lit
418
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,040
by the glory of the Lord.
419
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,320
And I was like, yeah, I saw it.
420
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,760
So I think it was all that, you know, all those lights.
421
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,800
Yeah, that's something I was going to ask next because you talked about this beautiful
422
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,280
sunset without a sun.
423
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,120
Tell me a little bit more about the colors of the sunset and then how does that tie in
424
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,400
with the glory of the Lord?
425
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,840
The colors are so hard to describe.
426
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,720
One of the ways I try to describe it, and it kind of makes sense to me, maybe it will,
427
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,520
to some people, maybe it won't.
428
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:30,360
But if you take a picture with your iPhone and you go to the, you know, you want to adjust
429
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:31,720
it and make it look really cool.
430
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,280
You got all these filters and different things.
431
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,320
If you take the saturation and you move it all the way over till it's like 100 percent
432
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,000
and everything gets kind of blurry, but the colors get really vivid.
433
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,680
That's what the sky looked like without getting weird looking.
434
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,400
It was just, you know, I try to describe it like that, but it's still not doing it justice.
435
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:54,600
It was just amazing.
436
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,600
Yeah.
437
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,080
What were you feeling this whole time?
438
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,440
I had this warm and fuzzy feeling, right?
439
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,000
Like I was just, I felt like I was comfortable.
440
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,200
I was loved.
441
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,280
I felt like I was home.
442
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,040
That's something that as a human being walking around, I've never, I've always thought there's
443
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,520
more to this life than what we're living.
444
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,360
I've never felt like this was my home.
445
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:24,760
I feel like walking around like an outer body experience or out of body experience.
446
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,840
It's just, I've never thought that this was all there was.
447
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,000
So that's the way I felt.
448
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,560
I would just say just comforted and loved.
449
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,560
Yeah.
450
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:34,560
Tell me more about the city.
451
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,520
You talked about the tops of buildings standing up above the fog.
452
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,240
Did you see any more than that?
453
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,840
That was all I could see.
454
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,320
You know, it was, it was all covered.
455
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,680
And you know, it's funny because something inside of me just knew that that was just the,
456
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,640
that was the New York city of wherever I was.
457
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,200
That was a bustling city.
458
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:58,440
I knew that there was just, you know, hundreds of thousands of people down there and, you
459
00:24:58,440 --> 00:24:59,600
know, maybe cars.
460
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:00,600
Who knows?
461
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,040
I, I, I don't know.
462
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:09,280
But I think in looking back on it, I think that when I used to ask to, to see heaven,
463
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:14,440
I didn't ask to see loved ones, past loved ones.
464
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,280
So Jesus said, okay, I'm going to honor your prayer.
465
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,280
You want to see heaven?
466
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,640
I'm going to show you heaven, but I'm not going to show you all of it.
467
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,160
That's for the, for future Mike.
468
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,160
That's for the day that I bring you here and, and you don't go back.
469
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:28,160
Yeah.
470
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,800
That's for just death experience, Mike.
471
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:31,920
Exactly.
472
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,840
Not near death, but permanent death.
473
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,640
What did Jesus look like?
474
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:42,160
He, um, he looked very different than what I was shown as a kid.
475
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,100
You know, I was a, I'm, I'm a white kid growing up in America.
476
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,480
So I was shown as, as a child.
477
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,800
I was born in 1959.
478
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:57,320
So I was shown a blonde haired blue eyed Jesus with white skin, you know, like me.
479
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,120
So I never really thought about what Jesus looked like.
480
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:04,960
I just was never that into, I guess, religion.
481
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:10,000
I've been a Christian my, my whole life, but I wouldn't say that I was like a really religious
482
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,000
person.
483
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840
So I didn't do studies and, you know, that kind of thing.
484
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,440
But he, his skin was a lot darker than what I thought.
485
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,280
He looked like an Arab man.
486
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,840
He had beautiful, bluish green eyes.
487
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,400
Like I'd say more green than blue, but like dark blue.
488
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,480
I've always said when his eyes looked into my eyes, he looked into my soul.
489
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,520
He had a short beard.
490
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:38,600
He had wavy brown hair, dark brown hair, um, about shoulder length, a little bit past
491
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,720
shoulders and wearing a white robe.
492
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,120
What does that feel like when he looks into your soul?
493
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,000
Is there any guilt?
494
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000
No.
495
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,480
It was just, it was all love.
496
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,000
You know, it was just, see, that's another thing that's really hard to explain.
497
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,280
The feeling of love from Jesus was, was overwhelming.
498
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,800
I mean, this, you know, to be honest, I've held it together pretty good on this interview,
499
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,040
but usually I cry because it was so emotional.
500
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,360
You know, it was just so overwhelmingly emotional.
501
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:15,920
If I, if I think about it, I'll start crying again.
502
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,360
My wife came in to see me the next day after surgery and I, I said, I got to tell you what
503
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:22,760
happened and she said, what?
504
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,480
And I started to tell her and I start crying.
505
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,920
I couldn't even tell her.
506
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,200
This is my wife.
507
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,200
Same thing happened the next day.
508
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,560
It took three days before I was able to tell her without crying.
509
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,480
And then I was, you know, fighting back tears, telling her what happened.
510
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,400
And she was just amazed.
511
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:45,760
And then of course I get home after, after 12 days in the hospital and my best friend
512
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:51,360
comes over and he sits down and I'd lost 35 pounds in 12 days because of the diet that
513
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:52,360
they had me on.
514
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:53,360
I couldn't eat anything.
515
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:56,160
I was on liquid diet for about a week.
516
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,080
He says, you know, my wife told him that something happened and he wanted to hear about it.
517
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,760
He comes over and I start crying and he's sitting next to me.
518
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,040
He's a touchy feely guy.
519
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,360
He leans over and he's holding my hand and he goes, come on, you can tell me, you can
520
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:11,360
tell me.
521
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:12,360
And we're both crying.
522
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:18,440
It was just that feeling from Jesus was really overwhelming.
523
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:19,560
How did your wife react?
524
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,000
Did she believe it?
525
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,520
She believed me.
526
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,520
She cried.
527
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,960
There were some things going on in her life that kept her at a distance, I think from,
528
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,960
that's probably a whole other story.
529
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,520
But yeah, she believed me.
530
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:41,200
I've told some people, I've told some pastors of mine about that, the experience.
531
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,840
And I could just tell the look in their eye that they didn't believe me.
532
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,200
One pastor just said, wow, that's amazing.
533
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,440
Everybody has a different empathy level.
534
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,480
So I don't know, maybe he, maybe he believed me, maybe he didn't.
535
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,360
It's tough because I can't change the experience.
536
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,480
So no, you're just saying what happened to you.
537
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:02,880
Yeah, exactly.
538
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,320
And you're not trying to infer anything by it or say people should believe this or that
539
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,480
because of it.
540
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,640
I can tell.
541
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,640
They're just sincere.
542
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:12,880
It's just very matter of fact.
543
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,200
Here's what happened.
544
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,840
The whole thing with clergy fascinates me a little bit because I've heard a lot of people
545
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,440
tell me either what you just did, like, I don't know if they believe me or not.
546
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:29,040
Some have actually been quite negative and said, oh, the devil was showing you something
547
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,160
to deceive you in some way earlier today.
548
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,360
And I don't know if this episode is going to come out before or after yours, but earlier
549
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:43,960
today I was interviewing a priest about his NDE and I asked him a question about this.
550
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:50,880
And he said, he said his, his leaders, the bishops that he talked to were really good
551
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,880
about it and believed him.
552
00:29:53,880 --> 00:30:01,480
And he actually apologized on behalf of all clergy who have made the mistake of not believing
553
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,960
their parishioners who have had an experience like this.
554
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,680
Just because they don't understand it well enough.
555
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:15,800
And he's, and he kind of put a call out to, you know, other clergy of, of whatever faith
556
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,480
doesn't matter.
557
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,740
If this is something that you don't understand, get a little more education.
558
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:23,240
These people aren't crazy.
559
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,400
This isn't something of the devil.
560
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,940
But above all, we're supposed to support each other, right?
561
00:30:29,940 --> 00:30:34,480
And that starts with, Mike, when you look me in the eye and you're this sincere and
562
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,600
you tell me what happened, I believe you.
563
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,240
You know, I've shared this story quite a bit.
564
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:48,240
And the thing that, that I find that a lot of Christians do is, and I've always said
565
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,600
this should be what, what I call an in-house debate.
566
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Don't tear Christians down for something that, that they believe.
567
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,800
Don't tell them, hey, educate yourself, read your Bible.
568
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:58,880
What's wrong with you?
569
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,800
Look, this happened to me.
570
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,400
I believe that it was Jesus that, that took me and answered a childhood prayer, even though
571
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,560
it took 40 years to answer.
572
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,560
He still did.
573
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:09,920
He honored that prayer.
574
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:16,120
But what'll happen is a lot of times somebody will throw a Bible verse out at me and it's
575
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,800
taken completely out of context.
576
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,360
The one that I always hear is the Bible says no man has ever seen what God has prepared
577
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,360
for him, something like that.
578
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,600
I don't even know the verse exactly.
579
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,920
But it's, it's, it does, it's not even talking about a near death experience.
580
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:38,160
I mean, Paul, the disciple had what he, what most people believe is a near death experience.
581
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:44,680
You know, when Stephen was stoned to death, it says he looked up and he saw Jesus standing
582
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,680
at the right hand of the father.
583
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,320
He didn't say Jesus was floating.
584
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,040
He said Jesus was standing there.
585
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,560
And so when I had my NDE, I thought, wow, Stephen is describing kind of what I saw too.
586
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,240
It was a physical place and that was just fascinating to me.
587
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,480
But you know, talk on it.
588
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,120
Christians will throw out some Bible verse and say, I had one lady, when I first wrote
589
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,640
my book about this, this came out, I don't know, it was 12 years ago.
590
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,800
I think I was doing a book signing and this lady looks at me and she says, when Jesus held
591
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,600
his hand, did you feel the nail hole in his hand?
592
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,120
And I said, no.
593
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,280
I mean, nobody's ever asked me that.
594
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,960
She says, well, I just don't even believe you then.
595
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,960
And she walked away.
596
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,760
She was mad at me because it and I thought, okay, what's the deal with them?
597
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,760
Well then I come, I do a little digging and I find out that they probably didn't put the
598
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,560
nail in his hand.
599
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,000
They put it in his wrist.
600
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,960
And if you, if you dig into the Roman times, they had, it has to hold your weight.
601
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,840
The hand would just rip apart in the way they describe their language.
602
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,920
The hand goes up to here.
603
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:54,920
It's not just the hand.
604
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,720
This is what we call our hand, but in Roman times, their hand was, I think it ended right
605
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,200
about there.
606
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,360
So I thought, well, I guess that's the way it's going to be.
607
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,240
Some people will believe and some people won't.
608
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,480
I can't change that.
609
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:09,760
No, you can't.
610
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,720
And don't take it personally.
611
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaking of people in the Bible, and I'm not here to get into a big Bible talk, but the
612
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:22,240
one person I want to get on this show so badly and I don't know how to do it is Lazarus.
613
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:23,440
Oh wow.
614
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,000
He was dead for three days.
615
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,480
Imagine all the things that he saw and experienced.
616
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,480
Yeah.
617
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,480
Yeah.
618
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,480
Yeah.
619
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:32,480
No kidding.
620
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,560
Anyway, maybe someday Lazarus, if you're listening, come on buddy.
621
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,760
How much fear of death do you have now?
622
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,600
I don't fear death.
623
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,960
I've kind of described death this way.
624
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,080
It's the death is like moving.
625
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:53,480
I'm not looking forward to the process, but I'm excited about the destination.
626
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,280
It's a great way to put it.
627
00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:01,600
You know, hopefully my death will be quick and or, you know, pass when you're sleeping.
628
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:02,880
That's the way to go, I think.
629
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:03,880
Yeah.
630
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,280
I think that's a great way to put it.
631
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,280
All right.
632
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,720
We're going to wrap up, but I would love you to leave our listeners with a message of
633
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:15,920
hope or anything that maybe you've left out that you just would like to share to lift
634
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,560
somebody up today.
635
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:23,400
You know, one of the things that happened, I was in the hospital for 12 days and I was
636
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,960
in a beach town, Ventura's right on the beach.
637
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,440
And the first day I had to get up and walk, you know, walking is huge in the hospital.
638
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,880
They want you to walk as soon as you can, get everything working again.
639
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,600
So I had four different tubes coming out of me that were all hooked up to an IV stand
640
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,240
and one day the nurse comes in and he says, okay, let's go.
641
00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:44,240
You're going to walk today.
642
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:46,640
This is like the second day.
643
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:52,440
And he starts walking me down the hall and there was these beautiful pictures of sunsets
644
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,840
and ocean scenes, you know, it was a beach town.
645
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,720
So it was oceans, a lot of ocean pictures.
646
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:03,480
And I just walked by there and I remember thinking, man, what have I been missing?
647
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:09,640
I had, at the time, I was a superintendent for a real estate development company and
648
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,680
it was my job to go through 30 to 35 houses every day.
649
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,680
I had to walk through every single house, make sure that the contractors were there,
650
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,720
make sure that the guys that had just left did their job, did it right.
651
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,680
It was a really stressful job.
652
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,440
And I was so stressed out and I was busy with, you know, coaching kids after work.
653
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,080
There was just no time.
654
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,760
It was just one thing after another after another, just super stressful life.
655
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,320
And I remember walking down the hall looking at those pictures and thinking, man, what
656
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,680
have I been missing?
657
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,480
I'm just racing through the graveyard.
658
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,360
I've got to slow down.
659
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:51,640
So if anybody, anybody listening is stressed out, take time.
660
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:52,840
Stop and smell the roses.
661
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,280
It's a stupid cliche, but you wouldn't believe how many times I'm walking through a park.
662
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,600
I live surrounded by a national forest here and there's a trail, there's a creek half
663
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,080
a mile from my house.
664
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,640
I walk through there and I'll stop and smell every flower.
665
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,520
I'll pick wild blueberries.
666
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:15,120
I take so many pictures, my iPhone is full of sunset pictures.
667
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:21,440
I just have to stop and just take in God's beautiful creation.
668
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,880
Even though it's, you know, we're living under a curse of sin, but there's still so much
669
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,400
beauty out there.
670
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,840
Just slow down.
671
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,680
You have made my day better.
672
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,720
Mike, thank you so much for being with me.
673
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:34,720
Thank you for having me, Eric.
674
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:38,160
I appreciate it.
675
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,960
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
676
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:47,040
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
677
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,320
If you want to share your near death experience, or if you have questions or comments about
678
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,880
the show, send an email to eric at roundtriptest.com.
679
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:24,880
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
