Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death everybody and I'd like to welcome our special guest
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today who is going to go by his nickname to stay a little bit anonymous.
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Shabby, good morning, how are you?
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I am fine, how about you guys?
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Ah, we're doing great here.
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Nobody that's listening has ever met you.
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I know you live down in Canab, Utah and I'd like our listeners to get to know you a little
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bit.
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What is Canab like?
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Because when I envision it, I envision the old John Wayne Western movies.
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That's part of it.
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That scenery is a lot what it looks like in that area, isn't it?
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Yeah, it is.
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There's two movies that's here in town that have been abandoned years ago.
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There's more of a tourist town than anything else, about 5,000 people live here.
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Almost everybody knows everybody.
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Very beautiful little community to live in.
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You're how far from Lake Powell?
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I am an hour from Lake Powell, an hour west of Lake Powell.
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Well anyway, it's good to see you this morning and I think people are going to be really
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interested in your story.
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I appreciate you trusting us enough to share with us.
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I know you have not shared it much, which is why we're keeping you anonymous.
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I love your nickname, Shabby.
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What does that mean?
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It means the great bear or grizzly bear in Cherokee.
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My grandfather was a Native American.
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I grew up with him and that influenced and he taught me the language and the culture
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and all the stuff that goes with that.
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You have been through some very difficult things in your life.
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We won't dwell on those too much, but you've had multiple near-death experiences and that's
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what we're going to be talking about.
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I'm not even sure where to start because your first one, I believe, was when you were four
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years old.
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Tell me about the one that stands out to you the most.
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If I said, Shabby, I know you've had a lot of experiences, but what one is the most memorable
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or you learn the most from?
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Let's start there.
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When did that happen?
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Two, but they're kind of equal in importance.
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The one where I was taught the most, I think, was when I was six years old.
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I was brutally raped by two women who were trying to get evil with my father, who was
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a very evil man by every definition of the word.
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I thought by her to me, they were her family and they proceeded to do some really nasty
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things to me.
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I was in the hospital for about two months and I had 220 plus stitches to put me back
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together.
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During the surgery to put me back together, I died twice, one time for a little over eight
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minutes and the second time was a little over six minutes.
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A lot of people have a lot of ideas that I'm not quite so sure they are having that they
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understand about what actually happens.
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For me, it was a very beautiful experience.
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It was a life-changing experience because it confirmed some of the things that my grandfather
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taught me when I was a little, I mean, when I was about four years old, he started teaching
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me.
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One thing I was taught as a child by my grandfather and my mother, my dad, we won't get there,
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because I have absolute faith in Jesus Christ that he would answer all of our questions
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and that he loved us unconditionally, that if we didn't doubt him, that he would come
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to us when we need him.
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That happened in the first NDE, the first major NDE that I had.
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If you don't mind, I want to get into the details of that.
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Tell me, lots of people say they went through a tunnel to some other place.
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Some people are in the hospital and see their body and what's going on.
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What first happened that you remember?
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The first thing that happened was I felt my heart quit beating and then I was looking
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at my body and then a messenger to this day, I don't know who it was, came to me and said,
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and asked me to follow him.
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He took me up the staircase, it was very well lit.
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There was an angel standing at the top of it, most of whom he needed to come forward.
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This messenger was holding my hand and walking with me and he told me not to be afraid and
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that it was all good, but this is going to be a short little visit.
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Their definition of visit was a lot different than ours.
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As I walked up the staircase, it was bright, it was blue and white and absolutely beautiful
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in every sense of the word.
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When I got to the top of the staircase, I was taken by this messenger at the top into
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a room and I was just told to wait.
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The room had a big white sofa sitting there, at least it looked like a sofa.
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It had two curled ends on either end of it and I was asked to sit.
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I was also greeted by a bunch of other people as they were passing by and each of them took
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time to welcome me and to ask me who I was as if they didn't know, but then they did
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and then they would call me by my Indian name, which was pretty interesting because I had
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never shared that name with anybody to that point.
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I had very few people today even know it.
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I was asked to sit down and that somebody would come and visit with me.
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I was introduced to a lady who said that she would be my guide and she would answer my
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questions that various people were going to come and talk to me.
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She says, one you already know, but you've never met him, at least not in this life.
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I thought that was interesting.
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While sitting there waiting, which seemed like forever, even though it was just a few
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seconds, I was only six years old.
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I was told to look at a monitor that was at one end of the sofa and I was told that if
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I had any questions at all, I could ask the monitor and if I had faith, it would respond
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and show me whatever I asked for.
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And being young and innocent, I wanted to know if I was alive or dead, if I was going
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to live or if I was going to stay there.
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And it showed me my life.
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We're up to that point.
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I was shown the first surgery that I had and why I survived it and how I was born and
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who the doctors were.
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I was shown my mother with what she was wearing the day she brought me home because I was
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curious about us.
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I was just a little boy, really innocent.
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Then she asked me another question, which was still stages of smear to this day is, do
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you really love Jesus Christ and would you like to meet him?
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Having read the Bible with my grandfather many times, of course I said yes.
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Just wait a few minutes or wait a little while.
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So she said, wait just a little bit and he will be right here.
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He came and called me by a name from the Church.
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He called me by this new name, which I didn't know anything about until many, many years
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later.
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He said he had a message for me and that I could ask him anything I wanted and he would
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answer if he thought it was important for me to know.
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I asked him, have I done anything wrong and what would my life be?
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Once he mad at me, which is why I was dead and he said he wasn't mad at me and that
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he loved me and he smiled at me and just the most beautiful smile that anyone I've ever
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seen has ever given.
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He put the signs around me and I could feel him and he said the reason you're going through
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this trial is that for where great blessings are given, much is required.
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I asked him if I was going to be blessed and he said yes and he said that I would be tested
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heavy throughout my life.
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He said that there would be more to come at another time and that he wasn't finished
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talking to me and that he had more information to share with me at some future date.
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I was then at that point brought back to my body for just a few minutes while the doctor
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swore at me and I kept hearing one doctor saying I can't give up, I can't give up,
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I can't quit on him.
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At that point in time I was brought back again to the staircase and brought him to another
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bedroom and I was instructed about a few things that would happen in my life and the
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people that I would meet and that I was to prepare myself by studying the scriptures
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and staying faithful and then I said to the messenger, well I'm going to screw up life,
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I'm going to make a lot of mistakes and then I learned about the atonement, what that was
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all about and why Jesus died for us.
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A lot of people have a lot of different ideas about it.
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He said this messenger and she was my guardian angel, she's been with me my entire life.
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In fact I just saw her a couple days ago and that's a different discussion.
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But I was told that as I went through my life that certain people would try to influence
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me and change me and that I was to not let them and that I was always to stay close to
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the Lord by reading the scriptures.
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I was also told to learn everything I could about Jesus, not from people but by prayer
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and faith.
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Wow, let me just take a breath here before I ask you a hundred questions.
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That is really cool and amazing and must have helped you through your recovery after that
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because you remembered all this as soon as you woke up, right?
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That was a question I was asked if I wanted to remember this or not and I said yes.
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I was asked if I wanted to remember and I told him I wanted to remember because I didn't
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want to forget Jesus.
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Yeah.
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Did you see any other things?
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Were you just in this room the whole time?
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There were a lot of people in the room.
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I saw my great grandfather and he came and told me that he would be with me as well as
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other people.
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I asked about the prophets in the Bible if they were real.
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Several of them came forward and told me they were and said they were where are folks
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going on and that I had to finish in this life which is why I wasn't going to die but
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I had to be there to get some understanding that would prepare me for the time when that
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came.
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There have been a lot of those things that have been fulfilled and some even recently.
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Those are amazing questions for a six-year-old.
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Do you think maybe once you were in that place your brain was functioning more like an adult?
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Does that make sense?
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I don't know if that's true or not.
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My grandfather taught me and I was about five years old when he said this.
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He says if someone can build a house, you can build a house.
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If someone can build a car, you build a car.
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He says the only limits you have are the ones you allow others to place upon you.
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And then he said we were reading about Einstein.
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He said Albert Einstein couldn't tie his shoes.
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He was using between 25 and 27% of his brain solvability.
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He says what if you tapped into 28 or 29 or 30?
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What could you do?
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And that stuck with me.
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And then he challenged me to read as many books as I could.
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He taught me to read by reading the Bible and he says if I could match the words in
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that book, nothing in life would be too difficult.
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And so I had that understanding that if I asked the right question, I would get the right
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answer.
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And so I was thinking when I was sitting there, it's like if I'm allowed to ask anything,
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what I want to know.
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And I was innocent, but I wanted to know what my purpose in life was and who was I really.
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And I asked Jesus, who am I?
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And he says I was his son.
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But he loved me.
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And then explained the atonement to me.
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And very few people I think understand what the atonement is and how deep it is and how
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vast it is.
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It's a very simple principle, but it has a lot of different parts to it.
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As I listened, I remembered everything and he asked me to obey him.
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And I said, well, what if I screw up?
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I'm a little kid.
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I'd already made a lot of mistakes because I was just an adult.
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I was always outside and always involved in things.
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I said, what if I screw it up?
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And he said, come and ask me to forgive you.
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And I will.
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And he said, now it's time for me to come back.
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And that was after the second time.
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I said, it was time for me to come back.
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But that he had other messages to share with me, but I wasn't ready at that point to hear
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them.
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I needed more understanding of life and people before he could share those things with me.
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Wow, that's amazing.
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Thank you for sharing all of that.
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I imagine you remembered in your mind what he looked like.
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Have you seen paintings during your life that remind you of what he looked like or were
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even close?
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That is an intriguing question, an interesting question.
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I'm glad you asked that.
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I have never, I've only, I've got one painting that a friend of mine made for me.
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She was an artist and I was involved with a group that they were searching the scriptures
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and going really deep into doctrine.
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And one day she says, if you say you've seen Jesus, well, can I paint, can I paint a picture
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of him for you?
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And so once you describe it, and I will draw it out as you explained it to me.
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And she got really, really, really, really close.
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Jesus was not a super tall guy.
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He was about five, 10, and five, 11, somewhere in that neighborhood with the deepest blue
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eyes that you've ever seen.
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He's a very self-spoken guy, but he was a carpenter.
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He had cow's hands and I could see the male princess' hands and his wrists.
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I didn't feel them.
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I didn't want to feel them because I thought that he was still hurting from that.
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He had the most amazing hair.
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It was soft and it was white.
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And I was really surprised that his hair was white because I know that people in the Middle
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East are typically dark-haired.
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And he said that he was a resurrected being and asked me if I knew what that was and I
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told him I didn't.
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And he said, basically, my body and my soul have been reunited.
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And he says, that will happen to me at some point in time.
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I said, but we'll talk more about that later when you're a little bit older.
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You can understand these things a little bit easier, a little bit better.
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And he asked me to remember those things.
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So was there a time when you were a little older that you had another conversation with
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him?
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Was it through another NDE?
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Yeah, it was.
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I've had approximately nine conversations with the Savior over the course of my life.
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The last one was about 15 years ago.
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Is that as a result of one of the accidents that you were in?
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Another accident that I had from another surgery that I'd had.
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I've had 29 surgeries so far and I'm looking at possibly another one, hearing the very
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near future.
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I'm not sure what they're going to do just yet because they're still trying to figure
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out what the problems are and where they're at.
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I've got interviews with a surgeon here in about a week and a half, two weeks, something
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like that.
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So tell me some of the other things that you learned from him later in life.
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I learned that evil people, that this country was going to be in a lot of trouble.
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I was shown every president that we would have up into the second coming.
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And so far, I've seen all but two.
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I was told about a war that would come and I was asked to look.
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I had to look away because it was just something you don't want to experience.
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I asked if it would happen in my lifetime and he said, that depends on people.
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He says, the first rule of heaven is agency.
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People can make a decision and do whatever they want.
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He says, my time is not measured like people's time on Earth is measured.
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He said, one second to me is a lot longer than what people realize.
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I said, just live your life to the best you can and look for these things and look for
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these people.
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When I saw the evil and I saw Satan, I was showing what he looks like.
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He does not look like the monster that people look so.
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He doesn't have warnings or hoops or anything like that.
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He's a very good looking man, but he's a very cunning man and a very smart man.
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And I was told never to challenge him nor to discount him.
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And he said that personally to me and he held me really close because I was scared.
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When I saw his face, I was scared because I could see the anger and rage in his eyes.
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And I was told to remember that, but to never push him and never challenge him.
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That's some of the things I was showing the war that's coming.
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And this war that will come, whether it will be in my lifetime, I don't know, but I was
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also warned that there were a lot of prophecies that had been filled before that war could
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happen.
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And so far, the things that I was warned about haven't happened yet.
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So I think it's probably several years away, if not more, based on what I've seen.
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Have you told these experiences to very many people before?
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And if so, what was their reaction?
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I have one really close friend.
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His name is Adam.
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I shared a few things with and his reaction was shock, disbelief.
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He was scared, especially with some of the details that I shared with him.
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I didn't share with him everything.
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And when he read the book of Revelation, there was a chapter 17 made more sense to him after
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what I shared with him.
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I'm like, that's only one tiny piece of a much bigger picture.
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It's one corner of it.
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And I said, there's a lot more to that than you realize.
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And he's pressed me on occasion, but over the years, I've just said, there's just some
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things I'm just not comfortable or willing to share.
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Because I'm not a prophet.
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I am not a fortune teller or anything like that.
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I've never claimed that.
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I've never wanted to be called that.
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And I hate recognition for anything.
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I'm not very quiet, very introverted person in most cases.
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And today I'm coming a little bit out of my shell because there's some things I just
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felt that it was time to start sharing.
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And as I prayed before this interview, I asked my father what I could share and what I couldn't.
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And he said, I will put the thoughts in your mind before your mouth opens.
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That's what those things are.
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And that's already happened so far.
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Tell me some of the other things you feel like sharing today.
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We are being lied to.
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I was told that the father of lies would deceive a lot of people in the final moments and whatever
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that timeframe looks like is up to debate.
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And in the final moments, he said, say, we would deceive the hearts of many and many would
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believe the lies.
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He said, there would be people that have already talked about it.
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He mentioned Jay Rubin Clark.
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He said, my servant Jay Rubin.
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He didn't mention a class named Jay Rubin.
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Would warn us about the media.
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And I was told, and I was only, I think, 12 years old when I heard the name Jay Rubin.
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I didn't know who he was.
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I didn't know what he meant.
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I was shown a picture of him.
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I said, when you see this man, listen to his words, because I sent him to warn the people
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and they won't listen.
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And that was one thing the Savior is warning me each time I met him and I've talked with
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him.
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I said, the people won't listen.
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They will draw near to me with their mouths, but the hearts are far from me.
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They will not listen because they want someone else to tell them, but they don't want me
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to tell them because they don't believe in me enough to listen to me.
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And he was crying when he said that.
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He said, if they would all listen, they wouldn't suffer.
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How do they listen?
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Just through reading scriptures, through prayer, how do they listen?
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Those that want to, right now?
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Through prayer and never doubting him.
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My grandfather was inspired when I said that to him as a kid.
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He says, if you never doubt the Lord, he will deliver you.
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And then I pressed my grandfather a little further on that.
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And I'm like, what do you mean by, you know, listening to the Lord and never doubting?
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He says, open your heart and ask him a direct question and he will answer it.
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But if you make assumptions or say what you want, not what he wants, he won't answer.
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So I always close my prayers, which I will, Lord, and that might be done because he's
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my father and he's the son of God.
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And if he gets his answers from heavenly father and instructions from heavenly father and
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I get them to him, I can't doubt.
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And one time I asked him, why don't you talk to people like you're talking to me?
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He said, because they won't talk to me.
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He says, they don't believe.
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He says, I will only answer questions to those who will listen to me.
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I will only come to people who will listen to me.
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I'm like, well, what if I make some mistakes and I quit listening to you?
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Because this was always a constant fear.
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And even to this minute, as a constant fear.
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And he said, get on your knees and repent.
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He says, remember the atonement.
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Never forget the atonement.
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It is so important for you to remember this throughout your whole life.
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Remember the atonement.
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And one time I really screwed up pretty bad.
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I was about 37, 38 years old and I was going through a hard time in my marriage.
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I've been divorced for 20 years now that I just gave up for the first time in my life
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with everything I just quit.
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And I did some really stupid stuff.
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And one time I was praying and I heard the words out loud.
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I didn't see him, but I heard the words out loud.
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You won't listen.
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You quit listening to him.
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I'm like, can I be forgiven?
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He says, when you're ready.
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It was a very audible voice, like your voice and my voice.
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It was very audible.
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When I was ready, he would talk to me again.
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How long did it take you to get ready?
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About six or eight months.
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I had a lot of issues to work through.
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A bishop in my church said to me, because I was having a lot of problems.
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I asked him, you know, what am I doing wrong?
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And he said, one phrase is to forgive yourself.
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And I thought of all the things he could say to me.
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Forgive myself.
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How do you forgive yourself?
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How do you do that?
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And I was praying and asking the Savior and he said, I will speak to you when you forgive
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yourself.
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So how do you do that?
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Because what I did was pretty bad.
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I made a suicide attempt after my divorce.
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I was in a very dark place at that time.
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I forgot how to pray for a while and I thought there's no way God could love me again.
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The Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, could never love me again after that.
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Because of what I did.
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And what was so amazing is that when you find a path to forgive yourself, the heavens open
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back up again.
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They're not closed for anybody.
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Nobody, they're not closed.
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You just got to know that he will and believe that he will talk to you.
399
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:36,880
And one time when I was about 17 years old, I rolled a car and it was pretty bad in it.
400
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And the other thing I said, he said to me, because I was only gone for just a flash,
401
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it seemed like, he just told me to never, ever doubt.
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Never doubt.
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00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaking of doubt, most people listening to this podcast listen because they either believe
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00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,000
or want to believe in an afterlife.
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We have people of all different faiths listening.
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Some believe in Jesus.
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00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,880
Some do not.
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Some are going to just flat out have a hard time believing you.
409
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Okay?
410
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,560
And that's okay.
411
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I don't care.
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And what do you have to say to them?
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What I have to say to them is that you have to come to turn us yourself.
414
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What you feel is what you feel.
415
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,600
I know what I know and I've never turned my back on it.
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I never walked away from it.
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Your agency is in your hands.
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00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,880
And there's something in the Scriptures that talks about, I think it's in Matthew, it talks
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about the books of life.
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And what I have to say to those people who doubt is, when your book of life is opened,
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your entries based on what you do here are in there.
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And one day the Savior will read them to you.
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And I can go into very detail, very deep details as to what that day will look like.
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Be careful what you say and be careful who you offend and who you hurt, because angels
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in heaven are writing everything down.
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Your journal isn't here on earth, it's in heaven.
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Be very careful what you do.
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I hope they're writing positive things too.
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We do good things now and then.
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I hope so too.
431
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:21,120
One thing I learned is that the Savior's love is infinite and He's ready to help us and
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teach us.
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He wants to talk to us.
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00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,840
He's made that very clear to me many, many times.
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00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,080
He wants to talk to us.
436
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,400
I've got a little emotional here.
437
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,880
He really, really, really wants to talk to us.
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He wants us to come back to Him and He wants us to live with Him forever.
439
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,160
And we all take different paths and whatever paths you're on, don't give up.
440
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,600
I mean, I've done that.
441
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You don't want to go there.
442
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,120
And I made a mistake when I was about 15 years old challenging Satan.
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Actually, I was 21 when I was 21, but challenging Satan.
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You don't want to do that.
445
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You don't want to do that.
446
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You will pay a price like you can't imagine.
447
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,680
And if you think He cares or He'll be nice to you, you're wrong.
448
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,840
You're very wrong.
449
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,640
That book of life is there for a reason.
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00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:16,600
And it's your experiences and it's individually written just for you and no one else.
451
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,960
And when you stand in front of the Savior, there won't be anybody there present other
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than those that you've offended.
453
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And their testimony will be entered.
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It's already in the book, but it will be entered.
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And there's a way that that's done and people wake up because time is running out.
456
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Wake up, please wake up.
457
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,800
I like to believe that also the positive things are going to be there too.
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The people that we have served, the good that we have done and those kinds of things.
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And as I've talked to other people about their life reviews, one of the things that I hear
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00:27:52,720 --> 00:28:00,200
and you tell me how this jives with your experiences is that they're shown the things that they
461
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did, the choices that they made and exactly how those affected other people for good and
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for bad.
463
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,320
Have you experienced that too?
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Yes, I have.
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And one of my experiences I was taken into a room, there was a screen in the front of
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the room.
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It was huge.
468
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It was bigger.
469
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,280
It was like a movie screen in front of me.
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I was asked if I would believe what I was going to be shown.
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And I said, you know, I have no reason to doubt.
472
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:36,000
And I was shown the good things that people do and services important, so important.
473
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,680
And I was reminded of the future of course, as what the Savior says, when you're done
474
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,600
it under these beliefs in my presence, you're done it under me.
475
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,720
There's a lot of joy in that.
476
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,200
There is a lot of joy in that.
477
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:54,240
There is so many great things that the Savior will use.
478
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,360
This is when you repent and you do these things, these bad things are forgotten.
479
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:05,040
It says they're cast into see a forgetfulness and remember no more.
480
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,600
And I believe that based on what I've seen in that room, that I was taken into another
481
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:10,600
room.
482
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,640
I was asked, you know, what talent would you want?
483
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,520
If I could give you any talent, what would you want?
484
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,720
And I asked to know where it would be when the slate was over.
485
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,480
What was the answer?
486
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,920
And the answer was very, very clear that that depended on what I did.
487
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,520
And then I was counseled to continue to do service.
488
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,800
He said, the first law of heaven is agency.
489
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,800
This is never forget that.
490
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,000
So earlier I asked you about your most significant NDEs.
491
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,480
You said there were two and you talked about the ones when you were six years old.
492
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,120
Was that both of them or was there another one?
493
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,480
Let's talk about the other one.
494
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:51,480
When was that?
495
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,080
A family named Bill Bradford had passed away.
496
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,000
I was very sick.
497
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,480
He was on a staff bed.
498
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:05,040
When I went to visit him in the hospital and there's a few people that know the story very
499
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,760
well, they were present.
500
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,320
There's about 15 people that were there when this happened.
501
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,000
Bill Bradford couldn't talk to him, his lyrics were removed.
502
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,240
And he asked me if I would die for him.
503
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,080
And I thought he was kidding because how do you die for somebody?
504
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,880
And then he wrote on a piece of paper, he says, I need a heart and lungs.
505
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,400
Would you give me yours?
506
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,600
That shocked a little heck out of me.
507
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:35,960
And I didn't know how to answer that.
508
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:41,400
And I thought he was joking around and he's being superficial because he was dying.
509
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,280
And I thought, yeah, I'll die for you.
510
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,840
And just casually thought, I'll die for you.
511
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,320
And then he said, I'm serious.
512
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,920
He wrote that on a piece of paper, I'm serious.
513
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,080
So a few days went by after that.
514
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,760
I was talking with my other friend who was in the room.
515
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,360
And I said, is he serious?
516
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:09,000
So I talked to a member of my church, one of my bishops and a person above him.
517
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,480
And I asked him, so is there anything against me doing this?
518
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,040
And I told him about Bill.
519
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,320
And so there's no doctrine in church as far as I were aware of against it.
520
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,240
So then the burden was put back on me.
521
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,640
So I talked to my mother, got her opinion.
522
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,840
My mother and I were very, very close.
523
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,520
I just said, well, why has the Savior said about that?
524
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,440
And I had to go deep into the scriptures.
525
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,400
And he said, no, we're going to love half a man.
526
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,680
Then he died for his brother.
527
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,640
And then I asked my mom, who was my brother, he said, Bill.
528
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,440
That was her simple answer, Bill.
529
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,880
So out of curiosity, I went and had to test down to see if I was a match flooring.
530
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:55,400
And other than a direct family member, I was a perfect match for him.
531
00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:05,080
And it really hit home because now the rubber is hitting the road really hard.
532
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,560
So I talked to the hospital staff to find out what that was all about.
533
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,520
And the hospital administrator answers, you have to send a waiver that your family will
534
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,640
not hold the hospital liable because you will die in a surgery.
535
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:25,320
That was an awful lot for a 27-year-old guy to go through after the ill.
536
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,440
So I signed all the papers, talked to the lawyers, got everything done.
537
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,240
So I was sitting in the hospital and Bill was right next to me in the room.
538
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,320
And they hooked me up and they put the drugs into me.
539
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,480
And while I was waiting, my heart quit beating.
540
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,480
And I thought, this is it.
541
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,640
I'm going home.
542
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:52,480
And the love that was shown for me when I got to the top of the staircase and the tears
543
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,640
were flowing like water.
544
00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:01,840
The Savior says, you have proven your love for me and now I'm going to do this for you.
545
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:07,320
And what he did for me is something I've never showed any human being and I don't think I
546
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,320
can.
547
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:15,160
I was shown that whatever I did after that point, as long as I remain faithful, that
548
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,720
there was a place for me.
549
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:23,400
And I was shown what that place was to describe the beauty of it and the magnitude of it and
550
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,000
the people that were going to be with me there is beyond all words.
551
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:34,000
And I was told that it was time to go back because I was willing to die for my friend,
552
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,120
that the atonement was in full effect for me.
553
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,440
And then I needed to return and share those messages.
554
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:46,400
And I was put back in my body and I was suffering over my body for about, I was seen like four
555
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,200
or five minutes.
556
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,960
And then my angel said to me, it's time for you to leave, but we're not finished yet.
557
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,880
But remember these things and keep them sacred.
558
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,400
And I have.
559
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,960
What happened was that Bill Bradford's brother had died the same minute that the injection
560
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,760
was given to me.
561
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,120
His brother, twin brother had passed away and his twin brother wanted his organs given to
562
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:12,120
him.
563
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:17,360
Now, Bill Bradford was the guy who trained a lot of CIA agents, FBI agents and police
564
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,760
officers.
565
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:24,920
This guy had done more service for this country than any person I've ever met in my life.
566
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,760
This guy in my mind was more important than I was in this world because of the lives he
567
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,320
had saved and the people he had helped.
568
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,960
This guy's level of service was second to none.
569
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,280
And that's why when I considered all those things, I went to do this.
570
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,880
I agreed to that, to how to happen.
571
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:52,360
And the saver said, my sacrifice was no gears and heads and that I would be rewarded for
572
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,360
time.
573
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,160
That was the most powerful and he got that and I was 27 years old.
574
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,800
Sorry, I'm a little speechless after that.
575
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,680
I can't really control my emotions on that one.
576
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,680
Yeah.
577
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,280
But because Bill, Bill was a special guy.
578
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,560
But when I was told the atomic was in full effect for me.
579
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,840
I didn't know what that meant.
580
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,640
I didn't know how to handle that.
581
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,760
And I tried and the saver was sweeping with me when he was holding me.
582
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:26,240
And his last thing he said before I left is that I love you and my love will never die
583
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:27,740
for you.
584
00:35:27,740 --> 00:35:30,120
I will be with you forever.
585
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,680
And I believe him.
586
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:32,880
I have no doubt.
587
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:39,040
So for those who doubt that the saver is real, you don't know how deep his love is for you
588
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,520
and how great his joy is when we do the right thing.
589
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:49,400
When we help people, when we get out here and share his messages and read his scriptures.
590
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:55,240
He really takes great pride and love for us and joy in us when we listen to the scriptures,
591
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:56,240
when we do those things.
592
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:01,360
You know, when it's saying hi to a stranger or picking up the mail for somebody or picking
593
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,840
somebody at plate of cookies.
594
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:09,360
Those blessings and that joy that the saver has for you are very important to him and
595
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,320
he never forgets those are for your benefit.
596
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,800
And I encourage people to keep doing those things and to find opportunities.
597
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:23,080
Eric, every day of my life, I find somebody to help or at least I try to every day of
598
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,080
my life.
599
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,440
I'm retired now for health reasons.
600
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:34,320
And because like I said, every day of my life, now that I'm retired, I try to help
601
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:41,600
someone somehow and I never get upset with people, but people do irritate me and I know
602
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,320
different than anyone else listening or reading.
603
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,280
There are people out here that just really burn my shorts, but I have to remember that
604
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,800
they're on their own path.
605
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,440
And I remind myself of that, that they're on their own path.
606
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,160
They have to do whatever they feel is right for them.
607
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,320
And it being mean to me or anyone else is what makes them happy.
608
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,840
Who am I to tell them no?
609
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,080
I just know that doesn't work for me and it won't.
610
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,080
It never has and never will.
611
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:14,880
I strive every day to try to do the right thing and I repent every night sometimes for hours
612
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,560
because some days I just have really bad days and welcome to being human.
613
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,200
Yeah, exactly.
614
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,200
We all do.
615
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,200
None of us are perfect.
616
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,760
I want to ask about something you brought up earlier, which is your guardian angel.
617
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,320
This is something I believe in, but I know very little about.
618
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,640
Give me an idea of what, what you know about your guardian angel and is it one?
619
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:37,640
Is it multiple?
620
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,720
There are many, but one in particular, it's a lady.
621
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,920
She has really dark hair.
622
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,200
She's not very tall and she is not as far as I've not never been born.
623
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,800
She's waiting for the resurrection.
624
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,320
It's a different topic.
625
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,760
Some people believe it and some people don't.
626
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:03,240
She is very, very close to me and when I first met her, she said that she had been assigned
627
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:09,400
to me to help me and to guide me, but mostly she's been assigned to learn me about things
628
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,800
when there's danger present.
629
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,880
She has the most beautiful smile of that woman I've ever seen in my life.
630
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,760
Voice is very soft, but her messages are very direct.
631
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,440
I have never been able to physically touch her.
632
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,600
When I've even asked her if she would give me a hug because some of the things that she's
633
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:36,480
messages she's given me have been very, very emotional in nature and she says, I can't
634
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:37,480
do that.
635
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,640
It's not time, but just remember what I'm sharing.
636
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,720
You know, she'll tell me to look and she shows me something that's going to happen.
637
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:47,760
Since this is going to affect you and you need to be prepared for that.
638
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:54,760
And she always says that when she leaves, remember these things and never forget.
639
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:01,240
And then she goes away and the messages are usually 20, 30 seconds in length, but usually
640
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:06,160
she shows me a picture of what it is that I need to be prepared for.
641
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:11,000
She'll always say look and I look and then I see what it is.
642
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,280
She warned me about my car accident that I had, that I would be injured, but I would
643
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,600
walk away and she says, you will wake up laughing.
644
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,040
I was 18 years old the day I got in the car.
645
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:29,840
I recognized the car and I thought, holy heck, is there any way out of this that I wanted
646
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:30,840
to race that day?
647
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,160
I wanted to race that day so that I couldn't stand it.
648
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,600
And it's just like an energy.
649
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:36,600
I get a positive energy.
650
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,600
I love old cars, by the way.
651
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,760
I love antique cars.
652
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,160
And it was a 69 inch of all that I was driving that day.
653
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,880
And I got on the track and the feature of the race before somebody blown the engine
654
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,680
and they jumped a whole bunch of oil on the track.
655
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,720
As I got in the car, I saw the oil puddle, but there was a car beside me and there was
656
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:01,920
no way I was going to avoid that with the track.
657
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,320
And I remember what she said and so I just let go of this steering wheel and held on
658
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:06,320
tight.
659
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:13,280
As the car was rolling, she was sitting in, I told you, she was in the car, I told you.
660
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,120
And I thanked her.
661
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,520
And it was just a second or two or three, just a few seconds.
662
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:25,320
And when the safety supra got to me, I was upside down, hanging in my seatbelt and laughing
663
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,320
hysterically.
664
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,120
And I had blood coming out of my eye.
665
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,400
I have a cut under my right eye from that.
666
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,200
And I was just laughing hysterically.
667
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:40,800
And the safety supra thought, your teacher had her something.
668
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,400
And I got out of the car and I was just laughing.
669
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,560
And I'm like, what are you laughing about?
670
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,080
You just destroyed this car.
671
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,160
And I'm like, I'm walking away.
672
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,000
I just got in.
673
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,640
I got in the back of my nose to check me out.
674
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,760
And other than a few bruises, my minor cut under my eye was okay.
675
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,200
And I'm in universal words.
676
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:03,320
And that's when I began to fully trust in anything that she would say to me.
677
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,840
But she's been with me since I was six years old.
678
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,760
And like I said earlier in this interview, I saw her about two weeks ago, two, three
679
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,760
weeks ago.
680
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,800
And she warned me about some things that were going to happen and how it would affect me.
681
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:26,600
And since that time, about a handful of those 15 or 20 things have happened, we were walking
682
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,040
into a very dangerous period of our nation's history.
683
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,040
And she warned me about that too.
684
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,040
She warned me about my surgery, so it will test me.
685
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,040
I'm like, how many won't test me?
686
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,120
I've had 202 broken bones, 29 surgeries.
687
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,400
How much more do I need to go through?
688
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,400
Unbelievable.
689
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,760
You've been through plenty, believe me.
690
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,240
A lot of people that have had near-death experiences come back with some kind of spiritual
691
00:41:54,240 --> 00:42:03,040
gift where it seems like the veil is much more thin for them than for the rest of us.
692
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,920
For example, most of us haven't seen our guardian angel.
693
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,320
It's really cool that you have.
694
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,880
I don't know.
695
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,000
Any advice for the rest of us?
696
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,600
How do we get in touch?
697
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,120
That's different for every person.
698
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,680
I don't really know the right answer to that.
699
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:27,880
I know for me that personally, I look forward to those visits and sometimes I ask for them
700
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:33,080
because there are things that are happening in my life from time to time that I just don't
701
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,080
understand.
702
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,880
Then I was talking to a friend of mine.
703
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,160
I think you might know of him.
704
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,880
Ezra Teffbentzen was a good friend of mine, a very close friend of mine.
705
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,800
I asked him one time about that.
706
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,920
Why do these things happen to me and no one else?
707
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,640
He said, you ask the right questions.
708
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,920
That was a simple answer.
709
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,920
You ask the right questions.
710
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:03,080
For people, I think when you pray to a number one, is have absolute faith.
711
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,600
Number two, ask the right questions.
712
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,440
Number three, act when you receive those promptings.
713
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,440
Don't put it off.
714
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,720
Don't wait till tomorrow or a week from now.
715
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:18,800
When you receive those promptings, whatever they are, act on them immediately.
716
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,680
If you do that enough times, they will become part of your life.
717
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,480
At least it has for me.
718
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,240
A lot of wisdom flowing here today.
719
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:29,920
We're about out of time.
720
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,640
I just want to thank you for all of this and for being willing to share.
721
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,120
I know it is taking you way, way out of your comfort zone.
722
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,440
Are there any last thoughts that you'd like to leave with the listeners?
723
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,240
There's a lot of things I would like to say.
724
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:48,040
Let's try to narrow it down.
725
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:53,880
I think the most important thing is to be willing to listen.
726
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:59,760
Humble yourself to the point where you can listen and start reading your scriptures and
727
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,840
open your mind to other possibilities.
728
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,120
What we're being told by the world is wrong.
729
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,320
I'd say about 98% of everything you're hearing out there is wrong.
730
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:16,080
Ignore the chatter and listen and never doubt and believe with everything that's in you.
731
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:21,680
Have a hold of it with all the energy you have in your heart and never doubt.
732
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,680
Those miracles will happen.
733
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,240
The Lord has promised us that he will do those things worse.
734
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:28,720
And I don't doubt him.
735
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:30,320
Not for a second.
736
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,160
You've had a really rough life.
737
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,600
How much fear do you have of death?
738
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:35,600
Zero.
739
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,440
I look forward to it.
740
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:38,880
I want to go home.
741
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,520
All my family, I'm the last surviving member of my family.
742
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,320
All my aunts and uncles and most of my cousins have all passed away.
743
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:47,760
My mother and my father are both gone.
744
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,840
My father, I'm glad he's gone, but my mother hurt me.
745
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,360
It took a lot out of him.
746
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,920
I was relieved that her suffering was over.
747
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,920
She died from Alzheimer's.
748
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,960
I was relieved her suffering was over.
749
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,160
But there's still many times I need her at council.
750
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,760
My grandfather's waiting for me.
751
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,760
And I know he's one of my guardian angels because one of the things he said just before
752
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,360
he died, he says, when I die, I won't leave you.
753
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,400
And if anybody hurts you, they'll have to deal with me.
754
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:20,680
And my grandfather was a tall man and he was a guy that he met business.
755
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,040
I look forward to going home and being with those people again.
756
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,080
I don't fear any human being.
757
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,560
I've met some really, really bad people, dangerous people.
758
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:36,920
They don't scare me because one day just like me, they'll have to stand in front of the
759
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:37,920
savior.
760
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,720
And I don't fear any pain I have to go through and die.
761
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:45,880
We'll be short-lived because the love of Jesus Christ will make up for that when I'm home.
762
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,440
And it will be a very special day.
763
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,880
And I look forward to that.
764
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,800
So as far as death, I don't fear.
765
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:53,800
It's a beautiful place.
766
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,080
It's such a beautiful place.
767
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,440
You would do anything.
768
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,920
If you knew what it looked like, you would do anything in a world to get there.
769
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:02,800
You would make any sacrifice.
770
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,000
Absolutely, any sacrifice to get there.
771
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,000
Shabby, thanks again.
772
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,480
I have a feeling we'll be talking again soon.
773
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,480
I hope so because I've enjoyed this.
774
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,120
This has been difficult and my emotions have been all over the planet.
775
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,440
I'm glad that you reached out to me.
776
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,240
I hope there's a much time where we can share some more information.
777
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:27,120
I've just scanned over the surface of so many things.
778
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,120
Well done.
779
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,160
We'll take a deeper dive.
780
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,960
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
781
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:40,040
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
782
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,320
If you want to share your near-death experience or if you have questions or comments about
783
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,640
the show, send an email to eric at roundtriptest.com.
784
00:46:48,640 --> 00:47:12,240
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
